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Markemark
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 82
Location: ksa
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 Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Saying the sponsor is legally obliged under Article 40 to pay for visas etc wholly overlooks the fact that working on a Business Visa is illegal.
Read the contract carefully, they don't specify language teacher-instructor, you're employed...... tra laaaaah.... as a consultant.
Because you're a consultant, and shouldn't be teaching anyway, Falaq have circumvented any rights under Article 40. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Markemark,
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| consultant / teaching |
Yes you are right but it is also connected with a forward slash to teaching. A teacher is in front of a class full of students is doing what? Consulting?
I don't think there is a loophole here, unless you actually stand at the front of the class and ask each student separately if they need consulting in any matter that is relating to the acquisition of the English language. Once a concern is stated then you just consult them to the course of action to take in order to acquire that grammar function or idiom etc.
Sounds feasible and logical to me. Should hold up in a court of law, even a Saudi court of law.
Regards.
Grendal |
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Vulcan Warrior
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Aboard the Vulcan Combat Cruiser Tal'Kyr.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm considering an offer from KFUPM. My offer is consistent with an earlier posting and includes an educational allowance for children up to 25,000 SR "per household." This sounds reasonable enough at first glance, but I have two elementary schoolers and my research so far suggests that 25,000 SR probably won't cover half the tuition for one of my boys.
The announcement mentions the British International school along with Dahran Academy. The tuition for both of the schools is well over 50,000 SR per year. Can anyone with knowledge of this area suggest other schools I might consider before moving forward with the contract? |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds feasible and logical to me. Should hold up in a court of law, even a Saudi court of law. |
In a case to jail you for illegally working on a business visa?
The point is the use of a business visa is legit if for example you are going over to give a six-week training course in using a certain kind of machinery. What goes against the spirit of the law is rolling renewal of the visas, so they become a way of circumventing immigration law.
However it is the immigration police who deal with that, and you won't be having a look in on the negotiations between them and the contractor. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Vulcan Warrior. Can't you just enroll the kids at KFUPM schools? You don't get an allowance but they will get a fairly good education and the school is on campus. |
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Mark100
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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The fact is Al Falak have been doing it for years.
For the OP if he is desperate for money he should do it coz with his quals he isn't going to get anything better anyway.
If he isn't desperate for money go and work somewhere nicer for less money. ie not in the gulf |
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Markemark
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 82
Location: ksa
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Guys, I agree. I agree with Stephen Jones on the practicality of working on a Business Visa- if you have to, and yes, it's done all the time.
I agree with Mark 100- this is a good deal for a kid from Thailand with no obvious background in EAP \ limited experience.
Now I also think, however, we can see what this contract is really about- that's it provides no real solution for someone who is really interested in working in Saudi long term.
A word of warning, Falak routinely sink. They were at KFUPM back in 2004- and they were kicked out. Falak contracts have a habit of ending in 40 teachers sacked without notice.
Ok, for 6 months, maybe a year, probably as much as this kid needs, but Falak is inherently unstable. |
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Vulcan Warrior
Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Aboard the Vulcan Combat Cruiser Tal'Kyr.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Vulcan Warrior. Can't you just enroll the kids at KFUPM schools? You don't get an allowance but they will get a fairly good education and the school is on campus. |
Thank you Stephen Jones - I didn't realize KFUPM had a school. Sounds like the deal is, they take away the educational allowance. That's an excellent trade-off. If I can get both my boys a good education for 25,000 SR a year - I won't complain.  |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Damn. If they can cover your kids' tuition, they could cover my apartment if I went there.
Wait. I'd be dealing with a middle-man agency that wouldn't allow me kids' tuition or an apartment. Silly me. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
...In a case to jail you for illegally working on a business visa?
The point is the use of a business visa is legit if for example you are going over to give a six-week training course in using a certain kind of machinery. What goes against the spirit of the law is rolling renewal of the visas, so they become a way of circumventing immigration law.
However it is the immigration police who deal with that, and you won't be having a look in on the negotiations between them and the contractor. |
Now I know why I'd be labeled a 'consultant' instead of a teacher. Damn I should have gotten that consultant certification along with my TEFL.
Through past experience, the trickle of visas (thanks to the outdated processing) hasn't been able to supply the schools with enough teachers fast enough. This is because some people can't hack it there even as long as it takes to get the visa processing done, let alone the length of a contract.
Hypothetical situation:
Consider if one does hate it there and quits after a month. They will want him to pay 6,000 bones to get out. But what if he doesn't have the mulla to pay that? Do they throw him into debtor's prison? Do they hack off a hand? No, they let him go. If he gets a free pass, so would I. Nothing in these agreements says I have to go in with a minimum amount of cash on hand. But know that I would try like hell to make it work. If the outfit doesn't screw me over contractually, I'd be staying put.
Last edited by rigel on Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Markemark wrote: |
....
A word of warning, Falak routinely sink. They were at KFUPM back in 2004- and they were kicked out. Falak contracts have a habit of ending in 40 teachers sacked without notice.
Ok, for 6 months, maybe a year, probably as much as this kid needs, but Falak is inherently unstable. |
I've heard about this going on, MarkE. I wonder if it's not because the 40 teachers were employed by the same agency and the agency either got busted by the government or the school ceased doing business with them (or perhaps both)? |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: |
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DCC is closely tied to KFUPM.
The reason KFUPM stopped using Al-Falak was mainly because it could afford to. It has a low turnover of staff and generally manages to get its full complement by the end of the first semester; until that time the classes can be covered by overtime.
What did happen was that the wildly differing terms of contract caused ill feeling on both sides. KFUPM direct hires were envious that Al-Falak contractors were pulling in various thousands a month more than they were, and the Al-Falak hires were envious of the holiday pay and benefits the direct hire staff got. I believe that was one of the most important reasons for insisting on direct hires only. |
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Markemark
Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 82
Location: ksa
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
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It's a bit hard if you're one of the unlucky 40 teachers, wouldn't you say?
Not even KFUPM could have miscalculated by 40 teachers, nor did JIC when exactly the same thing happened there. It's not a manpower miscaluclation- it's a reaction to poor peformance.
What does happen is that Al Falak try to adapt their manpower supply terms, get undercut by other providers while, at the same time, students are starting to filter back unflattering reports of Al Falak versus D. hire teachers.
The result- Al Falak is slung out and a different provider is brought in.
Al Falak is ok for the kid in question, but, trust me, is not much more stable than M-Trading. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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When were there 40 Al-Falak teachers fired by JIC? They never provided more than half-a-dozen at one time, and there were only three or four refused in all the time I was there.
I have never heard of the 40 fired at KFUPM either. Al-Falak was providing staff for both KFUPM and DCC and it was decided they should only provide staff for DCC. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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You took me too seriously SJ.
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Sounds feasible and logical to me. Should hold up in a court of law, even a Saudi court of law.
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I was being sarcastic
Grendal |
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