Job Discussion Forums

[dareva]

Hi Rigel,
Thanks for that info I suggested that I do the same thing on another thread in this forum and got mocked and laughed at by a number of members for my naivety. I agree that no piece of paper will give you a 100% guarantee on anything, but if you're dealing with an agency that has a good reputation (and from my research it seems that IMS is reputable) then I beleive it does carry some weight. So thanks for that, I'm gonna copy and paste that clause into a word doc and get it included in my contract. Thanks again

[Mark100]

You can insist what you like in the contract but once you are in Saudi you are at the mercy of your employer.

If you think you can demand the terms and conditions of your contract you are in for a rude shock.

[rigel]

[dareva]

Thanks for that info. It's all helping me keep my eyes open. The more I know the better. Knowledge might not be able to change thigs but it helps with understanding and developing a few strategies, ie Plan B, C, D etc...Im an english teacher so I know the whole alphabet, lets just hope I dont have to use it ....once again keep them coming...all is appreciated...PS what do sheep eat in KSA? Im vegetarian...

[desultude]

With all due respect (sincerely), as a vociferous non-sheep, I can tell you that you can be as reasonable, logical, and contractually correct as possible, and it won't mean anything if the government or the employer "can't" process your paperwork, etc. on time. One will blame the other, no one will take responsibility, and you will get a rep as a pushy, ungrateful westerner. And it is worse if you are a woman, because it is hard to have access to the people who control things as a woman.

I generally agree with Rigel about people standing together for what is right, but this doesn't work well in the Kingdom. The pride and stubbornness is to the degree that they would just as soon have everyone quit that to admit to an error or to lose face by acceding to demands (yes, Saudi is another "face" society).

This happened with the female faculty at PMU. We obviously were all wrong, and they would not change anything, so we all left. They did not care a whit. Few would agree to a 5% pay increase while new people were being hired for much higher wages (not to mention a million other large and small daily insults and problems) and the admin could not bring itself to offer more. So most of the prep faculty left. It made nary a ruffle with the admin. They can always get more of us, and maybe the next batch will be more compliant and tractable.

If you can take the risk with not having visas and documents (I never opened a bank account, and waited the months until I got my iqama, so it is doable) and you have a think skin and a dark sense of humor, you may do fine. Some people do, especially the men. Women have special challenges. I knew few women who made it the full 2 years of the contract without severe frustration.

Good luck to you if you decide to go with the Kingdom. For better or worse, there is no experience quite like it!

[dareva]

thanks for that. the contract I'm being given is for one year -so i figure - it's doable. i'm fairly adventurous and I'd like the expereince (for better or worse). It's very helpful to know how people have handled themselves in similar situations. I never for one minute thought it would be easy - just doable. I wouldn't take a two-year contract straight off though. I know I'll miss the simple freedoms, like going off to a cafe alone and reading a book, but i'll think of my bank balance when i get nostalgic and i wont be teaching kiddies, which i;ve had up here --
I'd like to find out more about the 'freedoms' or rather not that women have/not. WHat abotut accommodation. I'm opting to let them provide it for me (I'm thinking it's easier that way?) What will they give a single female for a 3000 SAR allowance? Please tell me it comes with air-con ...

[veiledsentiments]

[rigel]

[rigel]

[veiledsentiments]

Oh the jails are great!! Of course, they don't have AC and it is a little hot there.

VS

[johnslat]

Dear rigel,
Yup, it most definitely is a "face" society, one that tends to be based of "shame" rather than on "guilt." What matters is how others think of you much more than any qualms you might have about your own behavior.
The jails are something out of your worst nightmares; I know because I had occasion to visit a colleague who ended up in one. They make prisons in the USA (and I've worked in a penitentiary here) seem like country clubs for the extremely rich.
Regards,
John

[heavie]

There is some misinformation contained in these posts, perhaps some of the posters have no recent experience of the situation in KSA.
1) You cannot enter KSA on a business visa and then get a working visa(igama). On the business visa it's printed "not allowed to work".
The guy who said this must have entered with a working visa not a business visa and not realised this, they look the same.
You must apply for a working visa(igama) from your own country, have your qualifications attested and a medical completed and jump through all the hoops they present for you, so if you enter on a business visa, you must then return to your home country and apply for work visa and wait in your home country until that process is complete.(minimum 3 wks in your home country to complete medical tests for visa once you have all other required documents submitted before, whilst you are in Saudi on a business visa). No employer will bother with this, its easier to keep extending your business visa until the summer and bring you back the next year on a working visa, if you are still friends with your employer which I would seriously doubt.
2) You cannot send money out of the country from a bank without an igama, a passport is not accepted, changing money with a passport is difficult, you have to go to a dingy little money transfer place with the Benghalis and Flippers for an hour each month to transfer your money. However, it is possible to transfer your money.
One advantage of the business visa is that, if you dont like your employer, you can quit easily i.e refuse to extend you visa any further and you can go work for a different employer in KSA without any trouble. If you have an igama with one employer, you have to get his official permission in the form of a letter to allow you to work for another employer, and you wont get said letter. You also have to pay for your own medical cover, which is about $80 a month. **Dont go to Saudi without health cover**
Also, all reputable companies in KSA will be organised and not have to use business visas. I would say your job offer is from desert cowboys. If you dont accept company bs, you can be easily replaced with another person on a business visa. It's not so easily achieved if you have an igama. Does anyone know how much it costs a company/school to get an igama compared to a business visa?
My advice would be if your desperate for money and willing to accept any and all bs from your employer, **students** and KSA in general, go for it, but buy medical insurance before you do as you are not covered on a business visa, and be prepared to be tested to your limits. You need to read more of these posts here to find out more about life in Saudi.
PM me if you need anymore info.

[desultude]

[veiledsentiments]

[desultude]