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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 1613 Location: Home
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: Rosetta Stone |
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I want to learn French. Are the Rosetta Stone courses/software good? All the internet reviews seem too good to be true, so any real input would be nice. Thanks. |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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This stuff's generally considered OK for lower-level learning, though I have heard that the quality of Rosetta Stone varies depending on language, and I don't know anything about how the French version ranks (I have a contact inside the company - could ask...). |
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Kofola
Joined: 20 Feb 2009 Posts: 159 Location: Slovakia
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I think it probably depends on what kind of learner you are, how much experience with languages you have, whether you want to understand the grammar or not, and how much you enjoy being a parrot
I have never tried the French one, so can't comment on that. But I have tried the Russian one and suspect it's particularly unsuitable for slav languages, which are highly inflective and therefore difficult to learn to any great degree without understanding some of the grammar. It really depends I think on what kind of level you want to get to and why you want to learn the language - the kind of functional language you might need.
You basically repeat things back parrot fashion in stages - by identifying the correct picture with sound, by identifying picture and written word etc. I only really found it useful for improving my cyrillic spelling (my other slav language is much more phonetic, so I find this difficult).
My other gripe would be the selection of vocabulary, given that you are not supplied with grammar rules to help you transfer. Eg the boy is on the table, the boy is under the plane are things that I'm pretty sure I'm never going to say in Russian. However, I might want to say that something else is under the table or next to something. This of course is much easier to transfer in French as there is no case to change, but I'm not sure this method of presentation would help you understand the differences in tense usage in French and English or help you understand which determiners are female, male, plural etc.
On the other hand if you want to develop pronunciation and have a good ear, it is very useful. Less good if you can't distinguish sounds well and need to know what position the tongue should be in etc before you can produce the sound.
You can probably learn a lot of basic vocabulary quickly this way.
In all honesty I became frustrated very quickly and gave up fairly early on. It may get better as you go along. |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009 Posts: 664 Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Like what Kofola, I didn't find it very helpful at all. I got it a couple of years ago for Japanese and felt it was a waste of money. Sure it gave you phrases, but it didn't explain how to use the phrases or how to apply them. It's nice that I was learning vocabulary (which I, ironically, knew most of), but it didn't help me with grammar. How can we form sentences if we don't understand the grammar needed to form them?
The examples weren't the best in the world either, since I just couldn't see the average using them in a real-life setting.
I, too, became very frustrated with it and quit it after the first few lessons, and went back to my Japanese Textbook.
Rosetta Stone does seem to be good for basic vocabulary and proper pronunciation, but not for grammar. To learn a language, imo, all three of these are important. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 138
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have looked at, and tried a few language aids for Japanese. Re Rosetta Stone, I would basically agree with the above posts. It`s strength (and with similar programs) appears to be in vocabulary - that is, if you dont mind sitting in front of a computer screen doing repetitive tasks. And therein lies the rub.
These types of programs use pattern recognition but their ads are misleading. They suggest that as children we learned language by associating words with visual things - ball, girl etc. and that is what they are providing. But they are not. The environment they provide is based more on pattern recognition (remember that Sesame Street song: `one of these things does not belong here...`?)
Merely through process of elimination one can guess which `word` is not correct without knowing the meaning. Our brains are wired to recognize patterns and due to this boring repetition your mind will eventually start to get bored and lazy, which means it will want to seek the easy, quickest route out and stop using word comprehension to identify solutions but simply process of elimination. Therefore, you may `graduate` to `next`levels without really retaining much. I suppose, to be fair, that much is up to you. But as I said, if you think you might be (extremely) bored sitting in front of a computer doing nothing but repetition then you will likely be bored with this. I really dove into a similar program, and after a while found I just could not do that much consistent repetition, though I did develop a vocabulary after awhile, which I had no idea how to use in sentences and had no capability of understanding when spoken at me.
These type of computer programs are really sophisticated flash cards. And with flash cards you are not tied to a desk and machine.
One aid I have found more useful is Pimsleur - again, for Japanese. It uses strictly audio lessons, and you are speaking complete sentences and phrases. Whats more, you are developing your ear. Yes, there is some risk of simple pattern recognition that I mentioned above, but I find there is less so because it is harder for you to fool yourself as hearing full phrases reminds you, when your mind starts to wander, what you are doing the exercise for - to learn to use, and understand, a language in its natural state, not simply to `advance` to `next` levels. Subsequent lessons build on previous ones and review words and phrases from previous lesson, so there is an organic sense of growing, developing. Therefore, even if you do poorly your first time through a lesson, you will automatically breeze through the reviews, thus bolstering your confidence. Also, since there are no visual associations to use as clues for guessing at what you dont know, there is less chance of fooling yourself. |
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mozzar
Joined: 16 May 2009 Posts: 339 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I used the Spanish version and found it useful to hear the pronunciation, but it wasn't really worth the money just for that. The fact that it doesn't come with any course books to help or any explanations of the grammar in English meant that i didn't learn much. |
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jhhnow
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 6
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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OK for basic learning, but not really worth the money. |
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Sadebugo
Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 524
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm currently using Level I Spanish and am enjoying it so far. Nothing is explained because they're attempting to mimic how a child uses the language. However, they also recommend you study on your own as well. It's probably one of the better courses out especially for improving pronunication.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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