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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: Is it worth taking CELTA over Oxford or shorter courses? |
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I'm going to France next summer, then Russia, then Mid East (SA, UAE, Egypt). Is it advisable to take CELTA over oxford or shorter courses, in terms of acceptance by employers, specifically in those regions, or does it really matter? Because i would have to take CELTA in Paris next August...(not that that would be a bad thing mind you...)
thanks from a newbie |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth taking CELTA over Oxford or shorter courses? |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
I'm going to France next summer, then Russia, then Mid East (SA, UAE, Egypt). Is it advisable to take CELTA over oxford or shorter courses, in terms of acceptance by employers, specifically in those regions, or does it really matter? Because i would have to take CELTA in Paris next August...(not that that would be a bad thing mind you...)
thanks from a newbie |
Maybe a little searching among the various threads would be advantageous.
Most of what you're going to get in response to your question is along the lines of the following:
The "industry standard" for the minimum entry-level certification to teach English as a foreign language is 100-120 course hours and at least six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students. CELTA, Trinity and SIT are brand names (and you pay the brand name price for them) but there are some generic equivalents out there. Make sure that whatever course you take has that all-important supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students.
Now, to dig a little deeper into your post.
How long do you plan to stay in all those countries you listed? Do you presume to think you're going to travel to one country, stay a few months, go somewhere else, stay a few months, and expect to get hired by schools to teach students how to speak English (what used to be known as backpacking)? Most employers (reputable ones, anyway) are going to want you to sign a one-year contract.
Do you have a four-year degree (leaving aside that whole bachelor's vs. honors thing)? Many countries will insist on you having one just to get a work visa.
Are you a citizen of an EU country? If not, getting work in Europe is going to be really difficult. |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
woops, yeah, i'll have my bachelors in international relations, and my dad's English so i will get my EU passport when i get around to it. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
I'm a bit confused about what you're doing. Do you mean that you're going to spend one year in France, one year in Russia, one year in the MIddle East studying the language of each country?
The big three are SIT; Trinity and CELTA |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
I'm a bit confused about what you're doing. Do you mean that you're going to spend one year in France, one year in Russia, one year in the MIddle East studying the language of each country?
The big three are SIT; Trinity and CELTA |
yep, but two years in the mid east; either SA, Abu Dhabi or Dubai for one, Egypt for the second
(FWIW, people thinking a year isnt enough to get fluent, I'm Canadian so i know quite a bit of french by lifelong exposure and will be taking a year of classes prior, and will have two years of russian classes prior...) |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
I'm a bit confused about what you're doing. Do you mean that you're going to spend one year in France, one year in Russia, one year in the MIddle East studying the language of each country?
The big three are SIT; Trinity and CELTA |
forgot to ask...are those three much better than oxford? As in, will i make more money...? |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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For beginners, it's not about making more money, it's about getting a job. Some employers won't accept anything less than the big three mentioned earlier, but then keep in mind that that's still ENTRY level. If you go to Korea, for example, you'll make more money than in Europe at the entry level, and you don't need a certificate at all, just a degree. So you can go there and work for two or three years, then start a distance masters in TESOL or Applied Linguistics while continuing work and two or three years after beginning that, you'll have a master's degree and that trumps any initial training or the CELTA's big brother, the DELTA.
Get one of the big three if you can afford it, if not get something comparable that's cheaper, and if you can't manage that then get something cheaper in quality as well as quantity and keep in mind that you may not be able to get the best of the entry level jobs (or any entry level job in some geographic areas). |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
| i'll be in all of them for the entire school year, as i'll be learning the local language at uni in each place, except abu dhabi/ dubai/ saudi arabia, where i'll be for a year, or the school year, without anything else taking my time.... |
I'm a bit confused about what you're doing. Do you mean that you're going to spend one year in France, one year in Russia, one year in the MIddle East studying the language of each country?
The big three are SIT; Trinity and CELTA |
forgot to ask...are those three much better than oxford? As in, will i make more money...? |
Forget Oxford Seminars! It doesn't rise to the minimum industry standard of 100-120 course hours and six hours of supervised teaching practice with real ESL/EFL students (the teaching practice is especially important). Trying to put Oxford Seminars in the same category as courses that meet the industry standard is like trying to put a Chevy Pinto (some of us remember those) in the same class as a Mercedes Benz convertible. Let me put it another way: taking a course that meets or exceeds the minimum industry standard will give you a shot at jobs that pay more than jobs that accept Oxford Seminars or i-to-i or similar courses. And as another poster indicated, these are entry-level qualifications we're talking about here. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, HOw in the world did you get enough money to take 4 years off just to study languages? Or is your job paying for it? |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| OP, HOw in the world did you get enough money to take 4 years off just to study languages? Or is your job paying for it? |
point is to work while there to pay for everything....it'll be tight til i get to Saudi Arabia, Dubai or Abu Dhabi, where, from all i've read, will pay around 30k+ tax free, accoms paid....seems i could save at least 20-25k of that, not even taking into account private lessons...
willing to sacrifice now in order to be able to qualify for exactly the jobs i want... |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| You may want to take a closer look at the ME-specific forums here. I'm not sure your expectations for the ME is realistic, based on your qualifications (which is really a lack of qualifications for that region). |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
(FWIW, people thinking a year isnt enough to get fluent, I'm Canadian so i know quite a bit of french by lifelong exposure and will be taking a year of classes prior, and will have two years of russian classes prior...) |
Did you do French Immersion? What does "lifelong exposure" mean to you? Having access to a couple of TV channels that you don't watch as well as a couple of radio stations that you never listen to because, like most people, you don't even know where on the dial they are, is not lifelong exposure, but that's the situation for most Canadians outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and Northern Ontario. What lifelong exposure did you get living in Calgary? A year won't get you fluent in French unless you are almost fluent in it now.
Two years of Russian plus a year living in Russia will not likely get you fluent in Russian either, unless those two classes were at a pretty advanced level because you already spoke Russian before starting them. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
(FWIW, people thinking a year isnt enough to get fluent, I'm Canadian so i know quite a bit of french by lifelong exposure and will be taking a year of classes prior, and will have two years of russian classes prior...) |
Did you do French Immersion? What does "lifelong exposure" mean to you? Having access to a couple of TV channels that you don't watch as well as a couple of radio stations that you never listen to because, like most people, you don't even know where on the dial they are, is not lifelong exposure, but that's the situation for most Canadians outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and Northern Ontario. What lifelong exposure did you get living in Calgary? A year won't get you fluent in French unless you are almost fluent in it now. |
Well, he did have to put up with all those products in the grocery store being in English and French.  |
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Hot2GlobeTrot
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 82
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Hot2GlobeTrot wrote: |
(FWIW, people thinking a year isnt enough to get fluent, I'm Canadian so i know quite a bit of french by lifelong exposure and will be taking a year of classes prior, and will have two years of russian classes prior...) |
Did you do French Immersion? What does "lifelong exposure" mean to you? Having access to a couple of TV channels that you don't watch as well as a couple of radio stations that you never listen to because, like most people, you don't even know where on the dial they are, is not lifelong exposure, but that's the situation for most Canadians outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and Northern Ontario. What lifelong exposure did you get living in Calgary? A year won't get you fluent in French unless you are almost fluent in it now.
Two years of Russian plus a year living in Russia will not likely get you fluent in Russian either, unless those two classes were at a pretty advanced level because you already spoke Russian before starting them. |
well, I've taken a year of Italian in class (less than 120 hours) and I'm nearly at a conversational level already, and i started at zero. I've taken french in grade school and junior high and even now, before really starting to study it, i can read french fairly well, if not yet speak it. After a year, will i be able to write a novel in French? No, but the point is, for government work, to cut off the training time to get fluent. That said i've read that if you take someone who speaks english, no prior knowledge of X western Euro language and immerse him in that culture for a year, at the end of a year he'll be functionally fluent....and i'm starting way ahead of zero. Plus since i've plowed through Italian grammar (structurally similar) I wont have to waste time learning concepts.
as for Russian, yeah it's harder and slower. By the time i get to Russia, i'll have three years under my belt of at the very least book learning it. Hopefully I'll have mastered the grammar by then. Again, will I be able to write a novel by then? no, but i cant see not being able to read one. The class at Moscow State is 36 weeks, 20 hrs/ week....720 total, combined with what will be approximately 200-250 prior to that. Approaching 1000 hours, not taking into account living in the culture. I figure I'd have at least a junior high level of ability by then....
Arabic will be a drag, but at the very least I'm going to teach myself the alphabet and start simple reading by the time i get there.
As far as $$ expectations for the ME; every job posting I've ever read for SA, Abu Dhabi or Dubai was at least 3k/ month. I'll have CELTA and three years experience by then. Why would i get horribly less than that? I'm not trying to be defensive, just looking for answers... |
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