Job Discussion Forums

[desultude]

[destionable]

Dear MEB:

No worries about your questions and comments.

Destionable

[johnslat]

Dear destionable,
"Well, I am sure many people would like to see the world through rose coloured sunglasses, but unfortunately the world is not always so rose."

I'm not sure if I'm one of those you posted about who "like to see the world through rose coloured sunglasses", but if I am, all I can say is that I see the world through my sixty-six years of experience, which includes nineteen years in Saudi Arabia. Instead of rose-colored glasses, though, I think my still 20/20 vision is owing to my having had a good employer there, one who always was fair with me. And I also think that my having had no problems with either the law of my employer during that time was due, at least in part, by my attitude, which remains one that posits that if you treat others with respect and consideration, the chances are good (or better) that they will treat you in the same way. Another thing I always remembered was that it's their ballpark, so they get to make the rules, and if I don't like or can't abide by those rules, then I need to take my ball and go home.
I am well aware that many have had bad experiences in Saudi and the UAE, and that in many cases, these bad experiences were not their fault at all. I have also known teachers who had bad experiences because they didn't want to "play by the rules."
No matter how rose-colored one's glasses may be, I don't think they could be rose-colored enough to protect anyone though nineteen years in the Kingdom. Rose-colored glasses tend to be worn more by those who have had no experience of reality rather than by those who have had a lot.
Regards,
John

[Middle East Beast]

[destionable]

Dear John:

I too know of some Western people who have worked in the KSA most of their lives and have become very rich.

But I must say...in countries such as the KSA and the UAE that ignore international law, condone unethical and illegal practices...ie illegally holding people's passports, imposing the exit visa in what can only be described as modern day bondage or slavery...let alone the appalling working/living conditions for most labourers plus the lack of freedom of speech...IF I WERE ONE OF THOSE PERSONS I WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE A FEATHER IN MY CAP!

Destionable

[Middle East Beast]

I've got to state that the fact that there ARE exit visas in countries such as Qatar and especially the UAE is a remarkable revelation for me.

Having vowed that I'd never subject myself to the possibility of detainment by any country ever again, I now have to reconsider considering [word play intended] that position with HCT.

I've learned a lot from this thread.

[johnslat]

Dear destionable,

".IF I WERE ONE OF THOSE PERSONS I WOULD NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE A FEATHER IN MY CAP!"
I don't wear caps and have no feathers. Moreover, I have not "become very rich."
I will repeat: when you CHOOSE to play in their ballpark, you have to play by their rules. If you object to the rules, you'd be a lot better off not going in the first place (by the way, have you been to Saudi yet?)
I mention the nineteen years there to establish my credibility, that I have the experience and background to know a fair amount about what I'm posting.
Believe it or not, there are posters who have NO experience of Saudi who post on here but pretend to know all about the place.

Are you thinking of going to Saudi or the UAE to live and work? I'd have to assume you are not, given this:
"But I must say...in countries such as the KSA and the UAE that ignore international law, condone unethical and illegal practices...ie illegally holding people's passports, imposing the exit visa in what can only be described as modern day bondage or slavery...let alone the appalling working/living conditions for most labourers plus the lack of freedom of speech."
So, if that is the case (that you have no intention of going there - and perhaps have also never been there) I do wonder then why you frequent this forum at all.
Regards,
John

[Middle East Beast]

As far as I'm concerned you're welcome on the forum, destionable.

[johnslat]

Dear Middle East Beast,
Everyone is welcome, but it would be nice if the posters here who tell others about what life in Saudi is like also have some actual experience of that.
Regards,
John

[Middle East Beast]

[johnslat]

Dear Middle East Beast,
I certainly have no problem with destionable posting here (although I am puzzled as to why he or she does.)
Like, I imagine, most other posters here, though, if I read something that I think is mistaken or questionable in what someone else posts, I'll respond to it.
One "service" I believe we can provide here is to help those who've never been to Saudi but are thinking about going there, and that includes telling the good, the bad and the ugly about the Kingdom as we've known it.
Regards,
John

[destionable]

Dear John:

I am not the sort of person who goes around throwing my yrs of experience in someone's face...and I find those kind of people desperate! Furthermore, I'd never judge the integrity or experience of anybody who expresses themselves on this forum...not having a clue who they are. And it's not your business, John, to judge who goes or doesn't go to the Gulf.

I think we are all trying to help one another understand better and make the best possible choice...and quite frankly I have posted very few comments here and I am happy such a forum exists which I never knew before.

In my opinion, John, you are getting too emotional about this issue...an issue which however is very important to anybody considering working in the region. Already because of this thread, one poster is reconsidering.

Too bad, but the GCC countries and mostly the KSA and the UAE are well known for their abuse of human rights and their disregard national and international laws.

But I also agree with one former poster who told the story of a poor young girl in the US...appalling! It's appalling anywhere!

Finally, I am also aware there are VISA SCAMS in the Gulf...example: I spoke to a fine young Indian guy, who came to work in the UAE...after spending about 2000US$ of the family money...and that's alot...he ended up in an immigration prison until the officials could send him back to India, crying his eyes out because his VISA WAS A SCAM....the officials told him there was no VISA. JUST SHOCKING!

Destionable

[johnslat]

Dear destionable,
"I am not the sort of person who goes around throwing my yrs of experience in someone's face..."
I'm sorry that you thought I was "throwing them in your face." That wasn't my intention. I mentioned them, as I posted before, to support my credibility, as someone who has had considerable experience in the Kingdom.

" . . . and I find those kind of people desperate!"

Now that also puzzles me - desperate? In what way?

"I'd never judge the integrity or experience of anybody who expresses themselves on this forum.."

Well, that's certainly your right, but I'm surprised to hear it because I mistakenly got the impression you were judging mine. Moreover, I'm afraid that I do make value judgments about the postings here since not all of them are, in my opinion, accurate.

"In my opinion, John, you are getting too emotional about this issue."

Let me hasten to assure you that my emotions are well under control.

Finally, I certainly agree that bad things have happened to people in Saudi and in the UAE (and in the USA) and that warnings do need to be issued.
But you know, many or at least some of the posters here ARE going to go there nonetheless.
Now I know this is probably going to set you off again, but I AM curious: have you ever been to the Kingdom?
Regards,
John

[destionable]

Dear John:

Let's call a truce. Where I have been in this world is confidential and I sincerely hope you will respect that.

Regards,
Destionable

[veiledsentiments]