Job Discussion Forums

gugelhupf · Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 575 Location: Jabotabek

Lanza - no problem! No offence taken.

richard ame · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 319 Location: Republic of Turkey

Sara
I agree that the vast amount of the people who use this forum are well educated enough to avoid using delete expletives myself included,infact Idid not use any form of vulgarity in my post nor do I advocate it . The point I was merely making was that the censorship on this forum is starting to smack of big brother,therefore, in order to circumvente it I suggested with my tongue in cheek that perhaps humour might win the day if we start as has already been expressed an alternative vocab list it may even allow us to become more creative in our use of the language we teach (heaven forbid) hopefully Dave and others may find that censorship is a wasteful and useless exercise .

gingermeggs · Joined: 29 Jan 2004 Posts: 162

Censorship is used mainly to weed out the undesirable and the obscene, as well as the politically incorrect...hence the disappearance of the previous thread. Criticism is a big NO-NO.......kinda like certain Governments,eh?
Trouble is certain words with traces of banned substances, eg.cocktail get weeded out as well...guilty without benefit of trial...summary execution...kinda like certain Governments, eh?
The real nasties can get their vulgarity across without resorting to any expletives at all.
Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder, and what I find truly obscene are the posts of Glandsa-Bubonica.......the mangling of the language there is absolutely horrifying...blood-curdlingly disgusting.....vomit-inducing swill....YEEEECCCCCHHHH!!!!!! I shut my eyes to avoid the horror...(I have a weak heart)....that is where a bit of censorship would come in handy.

Sara Avalon · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 254 Location: On the Prowl

I can see your point(s).. but the way I see this forum is that I'm a guest here. I'll do my best to follow the rules and if I don't like them.. I don't have to be here.

This isn't a government website. It belongs to someone. Treat it like their home and respect the way they'd like to run things.. is all I'm saying.

Is it really worth it getting upset over the unfortunate accidental censoring of a few words? Especially when you have the power to simply add a symbol or punctuation to correct the error?

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:13 pm Post subject: Take me out to the ballpark

I agree with Sara Avalon. We're all guests here. If I don't like the way the Forums are run, well, there are, I suppose, three choices:

1. stop visiting here
2. e-mail Dave and complain
3. grin and bear it

The "censor" is, as has been noted, an "auto-censor", so I find it perplexing that some posters are complaining about its lack of selectivity. And it's so easily circumvented that I find it to be more amusing than irritating.
The bottom line, I'd say, is: this is Dave's ballpark so he gets to make the rules. If those bother me too much, then I can simply leave.
Regards,
John

Bindair Dundat · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 1123

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject: Selective indignation

Another thought occurs to me - many/most of us have worked/ are working/ are going to work in countries where censorship is a daily fact of life. The extent to which it affects us can range from very much, in, say, the Middle East, to forms of relatively mild "self-censorship" in, say, Japan and Korea. So, when I see postings complaining about censorship on Dave's from people working in lands where they have to "guard their lips" every day, it strikes me as, well, selective. I mean, if it's "the principle of the thing", why did/do/will you choose to live and work in a place where you were/are/will be being REALLY censored?
Regards,
John

James_T_Kirk · Joined: 20 Sep 2003 Posts: 357 Location: Ten Forward

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Captain, I find that very often in this field complaints aren't always justified

Gonzo · Joined: 08 Mar 2004 Posts: 80

"Guests in someone's home" isn't an appropriate analogy. ESL Cafe is a business, and we are its customers. The forums are here to get us through the door to post resumes and read the adverts that are the Cafe's bread and butter. Do you think McDonalds provides expensive childrens' playgrounds out of a love of children, or a love of [their parents] money?
As customers, we have every right to make noises. Any astute business operator would rather hear and respond to these noises than have potential customers walk away.
I believe the censorship levels are way to high, and could be eased back so that the ridiculous examples Steiner pointed out don't happen. If people want to be offensive, they just misspell or punctuate the word; right LA?

Sara Avalon · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 254 Location: On the Prowl

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject: A Perfect World

Dear James_T_Kirk,
Hmm, if it's OK to complain about the censorship, wouldn't it be equally OK to complain about the complainers? That's not going to change anything, either. But you know, it does remind me sometimes of some folks I ran into in Saudi Arabia. They complained a lot, too, and Lord knows that was their "right". But it always did make me wonder why the heck they stayed there then.
Please don't misunderstand; I'm more than a bit of what could be called a "libertarian" myself. But I understand that "commercial sites" such as this one do have to have some rules/regulations and that moderators are a "necessary evil". In a perfect world, no police would be needed; however, I don't believe we'll see any police forces being disbanded anytime soon. I accepted the conditions of the site when I joined, so I don't see much use in complaining about what I accepted. Still, if it makes anyone feel better to do so, hey - have at it.
Regards,
John

Sara Avalon · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 254 Location: On the Prowl

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

You don't necessarily have to buy anything to be a customer here. The more we all click on Dave's, the more popular the website becomes, the more advertising, etc., etc. My own feeling is that simply by occasionally glancing up at that flashing TEFL certificate course advertisement (which I try as hard as I can not to do because frankly I find the... uh... "pluffin'" thing so annoying), I am a paying customer.

d

Gonzo · Joined: 08 Mar 2004 Posts: 80

Well Sara, I did apply for a job from the international jobs board, so I guess that makes me a customer, as that's exactly what Dave had in mind when he set the whole show up. Schools and recruiters advertise here because there's a lot of traffic. We are part of that traffic, and we attract newbies looking for advice...and jobs. So its the volume of people reading and posting on Daves that makes it [I assume!] a commercial success. Consequently, anybody posting here is either:
A customer.
A potential customer.
Attracting potential customers.

Yes, I think we do have the right to be heard, and I'm glad this thread has stayed up to give us the chance to do just that.