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'English Canada' deal for real?
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hardly seems like the Secretaria de Educacion de Mexico would require such a thing [Castilliano de Espana.]

- J-kun


I guess I've been in Mexico too long. I wouldn't have even thought about that as being odd -- not the best choice for a Spanish language test for foreigners in Mexico but not odd. Most Mexicans that I know view Castillian Spanish as something like the real mother tongue of all Spanish mother tongues or something like that.


Quote:
The suspiciously high salary, too... (Strange that we're put-off by the promise of a decent wage)

- J-kun


I wouldn't say that we're put-off by the promise of a decent wage as much as that we would find it incredibly hard to believe. Probably anyone with any experience working in Mexico knows the reality of promises not kept.

Quote:
If this turns out to be a scam authored by Canadians, my whole world view will be rocked.

- J-kun


In my opinion, one of the most successful scammers in the TEFL industry in Mexico hails from Canada.
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Julieanne



Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:42 pm    Post subject: NOBODY GETS IT Reply with quote

I give up!
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frigginhippie



Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 188
Location: over here

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Jump to conclusions? Reply with quote

Okay, I seem to have been accused of jumping to conclusions, when all I did was ask if anyone has worked for them. Like we all said, it sounds too good to be true. An unusual test, a government instituted application fee, and an exorbitant salary caught us all off guard. That's why this thread was called "for real?" When people mentioned that they'd be refunded, I thanked them for the info and said I hoped they get their money back. I was surprised that Julieanne attacked me for that. Also, I never put the banking information, or the lady's name. I put "omitted" in myself, so as not to incriminate. Someone must have jumped to conclusions about me doing that (hmm...). Yes, the original message got deleted, don't know why, but kinda weird. I am glad that Julieanne can clarify for us that they are a real company. I can't speak for the others, but I'm tired of dealing with scam artists and just want to do a background check beforehand. I hope some of us get accepted. If you do, please post the details Smile
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lozwich



Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I agree with frigginhippie's remarks. It wasn't just the first post that was deleted, it was about the first 4 and none of them had banking information in them.

I was under the impression that we were all simply discussing the matter, with the caution that a lot of us are used to from living in Mexico, and the hostile nature of some of the posts disappointed me. Sad

Good luck to anyone who gets one of these jobs, and let us know how it goes.

Have a good day.
Lozwich.
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MELEE



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: C76 Reply with quote

Julieanne wrote:
I had about 5 hours of classes per day.


In my original post, which was deleted. Surprised (I didn't mention anything worth deleting!) I said that if you were going to get paid US$1500 a month, to be sure and check out how many hours of classes they wanted you to teach a day, as it was probably going to be a lot. Julieanne as been kind enough to confirm this. 5 hours of classes a day (plus lesson prep, plus homework checking) goes beyond what is generally considered normal.
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Working x-number of hours per week Reply with quote

Quote:
5 hours of classes a day (plus lesson prep, plus homework checking) goes beyond what is generally considered normal.

- MELEE


I suppose it would depend on the type of classes and type of program the school has, but I agree with MELEE that in most situations 5 hours of classes per day (25 hours per week) would be about the maximum that a person could teach and do it well. Something closer to 20 would be better.

Officially on the time clock, I'm currently working a total of 31 hours a week = 18 hours in the classroom + 13 hours supervising/tutoring in Self-Access Center. The fact that I've been working at the same job for almost 10 years helps, but with all the unpaid extra work required as part of my job (planning/preparation for classes, paper checking, helping with materials development, helping revise department-generated exams along with giving and checking outside exams contracted by the university, etc.,) it's a lot to keep up with.

Something between 25 and 28 hours per week would be more reasonable in my situation, I think. For someone new to teaching EFL and/or new to a school/program, starting out with about 20 hours per week would be plenty. However, because of the low pay at most schools compared to the cost of living, many EFL teachers are willing to (forced to?) take on more hours of teaching than they can handle adequately.
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refazenda



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 70
Location: El Salvador, Central America

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: English Canada revisited Reply with quote

I saw an ad here form English Canada, and since I applied a while back decided to write again and inquire about the status of my application.

I received a response stating that the applications submitted previously have been delayed due to contruction delays, and that the positions listed on Dave's are new positions for which a membership is required in order to access them. When I went to their website, I clicked through to a page that asks for a $35 membership fee for a one-year membership to their database of jobs that are, by their admission, not available anywhere else.

While there is, admittedly, at least one other agency that performs a similar service, and for more money, I personally prefer to register with an agency that charges the employer, rather than the employee.
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ls650



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also saw the recent posting. $35 seems a bit steep to just view some postings.
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I personally prefer to register with an agency that charges the employer, rather than the employee.

- refazenda


Obviously, anyone looking for a job would probably agree with this.

Perhaps in countries such as Korea and China, employers feel a strong enough need or desire to find foreign (native English-speaking) teachers that these employers are willing to pay recruiters to help find teachers. Such is not the case for the most part in Mexico, however, where most placement services charge the employee rather than the employer.

Why would an employer pay lots of money to a placement service when there are placement services that will send him teachers without charging him anything? Besides, he can put a cheap ad in a local newspaper and get more than enough responses.

I've seen it happen a lot in the city where I am. A TEFLer comes here, often after working in a country where his/her services were in big demand, and thinks I've got my university degree, my teacher training certificate, and two years of teaching experience. Employers here are going to love me so much that they'll give me what I want. If they won't, I'll just go on down the street a ways and find one who will. It just doesn't happen like that here. The bottom line from most employers is, "I might have a job for you. This is what I can offer you. Take it or leave it. Next . . ."

Whether a person uses a placement service/agency or not, the reality of the situation in most parts of Mexico in most cases is that a person is not going to start out with a good job teaching EFL where he can live quite comfortably, save money, and have enough time and energy left over to have a life. For some people Mexico is a wonderful place to live and teach, but it isn't for everyone. However, don't expect job placement services/agencies to provide you with something that isn't here.
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refazenda



Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 70
Location: El Salvador, Central America

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:12 pm    Post subject: Now we know... Reply with quote

Thanks BRdB,

I didn't know that Mexico differed from so many other countries in who pays the fee. Thanks for the info!
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Think I'll pipe in... Reply with quote

Mexico, and much of Latin America for that matter, differs a lot from China and Korea. I know of three or four placement agencies here and all charge the employee, not the employer. There are some other systems in place, like Manpower and Peoplesoft in other industries, and they too end up charging the employee.

I administer such a program in Latin America, which is neither cheap nor expensive compared to the others. Importnat in any of the placement programs is to have your side issues taken care of...housing, travel, work permits, translation, etc. I don't think that simply forking over $35, or $200, or $1000 just for the job is right. Many people don't want the hassle of solving these small issues on their own from afar and happily pay someone else to do it.

Our own program has seen dozens of people come through it in the last year and almost all of them spoke little Spanish or even knew where to begin in Mexico, Costa Rica, Chile, etc. It's not for everybody but these types of programs exist because there is a need out there for them, unlike Korea and China where almost any warm body will do for a teacher.
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MELEE



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Think I'll pipe in... Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Importnat in any of the placement programs is to have your side issues taken care of...housing, travel, work permits, translation, etc. I don't think that simply forking over $35, or $200, or $1000 just for the job is right. Many people don't want the hassle of solving these small issues on their own from afar and happily pay someone else to do it.

snip snip

It's not for everybody but these types of programs exist because there is a need out there for them, unlike Korea and China where almost any warm body will do for a teacher.


There you have another issue. It is common for schools in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China to keep apartments for their teachers, or in larger schools have a contact person who is in charge of all those details (large or small) that foreigners need help with when the arrive in a new country. While there are schools like that in Mexico and other parts of Latin America, it's not the norm for most jobs. There are even places where you might get a job and no one else who works for the school speaks English fluently!!
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Think I'll pipe in... Reply with quote

MELEE wrote:
Guy Courchesne wrote:
Importnat in any of the placement programs is to have your side issues taken care of...housing, travel, work permits, translation, etc. I don't think that simply forking over $35, or $200, or $1000 just for the job is right. Many people don't want the hassle of solving these small issues on their own from afar and happily pay someone else to do it.

snip snip

It's not for everybody but these types of programs exist because there is a need out there for them, unlike Korea and China where almost any warm body will do for a teacher.


There are even places where you might get a job and no one else who works for the school speaks English fluently!!


Sounds like lots of places in China!
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Julieanne



Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:28 am    Post subject: Again you are all wrong Reply with quote

I don't understand. I read some of the postings here and I am surprised that an ESL teacher who is serious about Mexico would not consider $35 for an entire year.
I worked for English Canada and when I finished my contract they were my recruiter as well. Nobody is as organized as they are. Especially not in Mexico. The owners who are Canadian work all the time. DURING COMA TIME TOO "SEMANA SANTA!" There will be at least 10 new jobs per month, so that is 120 good jobs per year that you have a shot at. I know that these jobs are not posted anywhere else because the schools don't even know how to post them in English, so English Canada does that for them and you certainly can't get Mexican schools to pay for those kind of things. Plus the FM3 VISA info that comes with your Membership is so helpful.
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't understand. I read some of the postings here and I am surprised that an ESL teacher who is serious about Mexico would not consider $35 for an entire year.

- Julieanne


I agree that $35 USD doesn't seem like a lot of money for the services provided (or at least it wouldn't if I were working/living in the USA earning dollars instead of in Mexico earning pesos.) However, I think the main reason is that for many EFL teachers with experience in other countries where TEFL jobs are more plentiful, they're used to employers rather than job seekers footing the bill for such things. Therefore, they suspect it's some kind of rip-off. If teachers are accustomed to working in places where employers pay for recruiting services, housing, work visas, airfare, etc., and then they see where ads for Mexico put the cost on the teachers rather than on the employers, it can seem like a red flag.


Quote:
DURING COMA TIME TOO "SEMANA SANTA!"

- Julieanne


Question Sorry, I don't understand.
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