Job Discussion Forums

[pschwart]

So here's the scoop. My girlfriend and I sent emails to an ad from Overseas Education Consultancy, in Hanoi. We do not have certifications, and also do not have much experience. On our resumes, we do have a lot of international experiences and volunteering in South Africa and India, and both participated in Semester at Sea, so we did highlight the fact that we are experienced in traveling and living abroad.

However, the company seemed almost overly eager to hire us. They did not require an interview. I'd like to know if anyone has heard anything about the company, or worked for them, etc. Any feedback at all would be hugely helpful because we are a little wary that the situation is too good to be true. Please let me know if you have any information at all! My email is [email protected], or I will of course respond to posts in this thread.

[inky]

What specific job did they offer you? If it's a straight ESL job then they ought to be requiring a degree and teaching certificate, otherwise you're right to be suspicious.

[pschwart]

This is a copy of the contract. I'm new to the field, so would appreciate any feedback if anyone sees any red flags. Also, while the contract says 30 teachings hours per week, I talked to them about that and they told me they would reduce it to 25 hours.

1. Party A�s Responsibilities

A. Party A should offer Party B necessary working equipments: textbook, exercise book, and syllabus.

B. Party A should contact the school where Party B shall work to ask for printer, photocopier, computer and other equipments necessary for English teaching.

C. Party A shall introduce to Party B the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Vietnamese government and regulations concerning the administration of foreign experts.

D. Party A shall conduct direction, supervision and evaluation of Party B�s work.

E. Party A shall pay Party B the monthly salary on the 15th of the month for Party B� work in the previous month, and if any unexpected accidents happen (i.e. the problems with the bank), Party A shall inform Party B in advance.

F. In case that Employee fails to accomplish the responsibilities indicated in this contract, the contract shall be terminated with consent of both Parties and Party A shall not be responsible for any economic compensation for the Employee.

2. Party B�s Responsibilities

A. Party B shall observe the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Vietnamese government and shall not interfere in Vietnam�s internal affairs.

B. During term of the contract, Employee shall not be employed by any third party without written consent of Party A. In case that the foregoing is violated, Party A shall punish Party B subject to actual violation. Party B shall take the responsibility of economic compensation equal to 3 months salary to Party A and Party A shall have the right to terminate this contract with written notification to Party B.

C. Before working with students in class, the Employee is requested to attend one or two sessions with some Vietnamese ELT experts to brief on the following subjects: the Vietnamese learners' errors in pronunciation, sentence structure, and word usage, the methodology that is practical for Vietnamese learners, and the cross-culture problems. The aim of this meeting is to agree on what can help foreign teachers make their teaching more effective and efficient in the new environment and condition

D. Party B is responsible for providing the student evaluation report every 3 months.

E. Party B is required to follow the teaching schedule issued by Party A which prescribes teaching times and venues. Teaching time will not exceed 6 hours per day. Party B will work 5 days per week. Party B will have two days off per week. Party B shall be available during days off for some emergencies, and when some teachers are ill, Party B shall offer the help when it is possible.

F. Party B shall maintain a good relationship with both the staff and students. Once there is a problem, a report shall be made to the director. Any conflicts with the staff or the students will be considered as the breach of the contract by Party B.

G. Party B should attend meetings as Party A required.

H. Party B should attend school activities.

3. Salary and Overtime

A. Party B will be paid a monthly basic salary of USD800.00 (working in Hanoi and accommodation supported). The payment shall be made at the 15th of the following month.

B. If Party B teaches more than 30 hours per week, Party A shall pay Party B at the rate of double times of standard rate for overtime class teaching. Party A shall arrange and inform Party B of teaching schedule a week ahead.

C. Salary review is on yearly basis.

4. Living Arrangements

Party A offers an apartment with furniture, bed, telephone, T.V., bathroom, kitchen. Party

B will be responsible for utilities bills and other expenses (i.e. house brokers).

5. Medical Insurance; Sick Leave; Personal leave

A. Party A shall buy health insurance for Party B in the duration of the contract.

B. For sick leave, a diagnosis suggestion on illness by the hospital should be presented to Party A within 24 hours. Otherwise, it will be treated as a personal leave; Party B�s one-day salary will be deducted for every sick leave (one day).

C. If Party B asks for the personal leave because of his own reasons, Party B should apply for it 3 days in advance, in that case Party B�s one day salary will be deducted for every personal leave (one day). If the school did not get the application before 3 days, then Party B�s salary will be deducted 3 times as much as the daily salary per day for every personal leave (one day).

6. Vacation

A. For one-year contract, Party B will be offered two weeks paid vacation. One week vacation is during the Vietnamese Tet Hoilday, another week vacation is the summer holiday from 1/6-7/6/2010.

B. If Party B breaks the contract before it is finished payment for vacation will not be given to Party B.

C. During the vacation, Party B will be paid by basic salary. No bonus or housing allowance.

7. Visa and Residential Permit

Party A shall apply for and obtain both a working visa and residential permit on behalf of party B. Party A shall pay the expenses for the visa, residential permit or other certificates.

8. Breaking the contract

Party B is considered as breaking the contract and Party A is entitled to enforce monetary penalties under the following conditions:

A. Party B breaks either Article in this contract or does not make any improvement after the warning given by Party A.

B. Party B cannot restore to his normal work after a continuous leave of absence of 14 days.

C. If Party B is convicted of any criminal offence.

D. If Party B is not qualified to the teaching position according to the evaluation by the students; or Party B doesn�t accept the training by Party A or Party B couldn�t make any improvement after the training or Party B behaves badly.

9. Confidentiality

A. Party B shall not disclose information of salary or allowances to others without consent of Party A.

B. During term or after leaving the Company, employees shall keep Company�s commercial materials and other business information confidentially.

C. Upon termination of employment, employees shall promptly return all assets or relevant business materials that are proprietary of Party A and the school, including materials, memorandums, notes, pictures, records, figures, plans.

10. Holdback

20% of the every month salary will be held back by Party A to assure the contract implementation. The total amount held back by Party A will be paid to Party B when Party B finishes the contract. If Party B breaks the contract during the contract period, this part of salary will be considered as part of the compensation.

11. Regulations

A. Employee must pass the examination or evaluation for foreign teachers.

B. Employee must have a good attitude towards work.

C. Employee must keep good reputation as foreign experts. (Never quarrelling, being drunk or getting in fight)

D. If any student�s transfer, complaints, or refund occurred because of Party B�s behavior, Party B shall take the responsibility of economic compensation for actual economic loss occurred.

E. Party B must arrive at school 10 minutes early before class. Teachers who are late for the class or leave the school early Party A shall punish Party B subject to actual violation. Party B shall take the responsibility of economic compensation for actual economic loss occurred.

F. Party B must submit timesheet confirmed by the school. Otherwise, it will be considered as breaking the contract.

[pschwart]

This is taken from the ad I replied to:

ENGLISH TEACHER IN VIETNAM


Technology Transferring & Education Development Consultant Company is implementing a project of strengthen English in secondary school. We need to recruit teachers who are native speakers from England, Australia, USA, Newzealand, Canada, Ireland and teachers from countries where people use English as second language such as Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, ...

* Rights:
- Teachers in Hanoi will get 1000 USD salary for 30 working hours per week (the company will not pay for accommodation, but will help finding place for living)
- Teachers in Hai Phong and Quang Ninh will get 800 USD salary for 30 working hours per week (the company will not pay for accommodation, but will help finding place for living) (taxes will be paid by employees)
- Some others benefits employees will have :
+ The company will cover health insurance
+ The company will be responsible for arranging visa and work permits
+ Salary ranking will be increased from 10 -20% after 3 months and can increase up to 50% after 1 year employment.

[just noel]

[pschwart]

Like I said in my other post, it's 25 hours per week not 30. And is it that bad of a salary for that?

[snollygoster]

I would never get into a contract like that. I suggest you go to either Hanoi or HCMC where you can get a much better deal simply by following the procedure in the blog I mention.
This sure looks fishy, and is $800 a month for 25 hrs a week with 20% held back, and no accommodation OK? In my OPINION- Most definately not.
The conditions mentioned where the employer can keep your salary are far too one sided, and thats NOT to your side.

MOD EDIT

[inky]

25 hrs/week in the classroom is considered to be full time, since it doesn't include prep, training workshops, etc. That many hours at one of the more prominent ESL centers in Hanoi will earn you around $1600-1800 a month before taxes, more for experience. And that salary also earns you paid holidays, paid leave, insurance, sick days, etc.

$1000 is insulting, although you say you 'don't have certifications.' You mean an ESL teaching certificate? That would be a problem.

[BenE]

That sounds like a certain school here that I know about. The pay is awful the management is Vietnamese and they will probably tell you that your English is wrong.

Apparently they teach 'I'm going to go to the cinema' Is incorrect.
I'd put most of their Vietnamese teachers in an intermediate class at the school I work at.

[pschwart]

Well, I had a bad feeling and the feedback has been uniformly negative..

thanks for the advice. Looks like I'll have to keep searching.

Anybody currently in Hanoi, or greater Vietnam in general, that can give me an honest outlook on finding a position with my girlfriend if neither of us have a TEFL/CELTA but both have BA's/experience living abroad?

[lucreziaborgia]

You need a CELTA or TESOL certificate from a reputable provider and a degree. Read the post on this forum about what you need to teach in Vietnam. This is no longer a backpacker paradise where the inexperienced and unqualified can get a teaching job simply because they have white skin, round eyes and a functional level of English even it is in their L1. (Shake them and they rattle.) Such draconian initiatives are a long time overdue. Try Laos or Mongolia.

[anjinholuis]

[sg9015]

[lucreziaborgia]

There is a post at the beginning of the Vietnam Forum that describes the requirements needed to work here.
Read it!
In the good old days anyone could 'teach' here but now it has changed! If people are coming here to get work as an ESL teacher they will probably be disappointed.
There are droves of people washing up from China - as we speak - because China has introduced strict measures on who teaches there! Many of these newcomers have been given a one month visa for Vietnam and are running around looking for work and at the same time hoping that a school will employ them AND organise a work permit!
This is not going to happen for all the reasons that have been articulated on this Forum.
If you want to come to Vietnam on a tourist visa and use that as a way into work you'll probably be wasting your time.
However, continue asking questions about ways to bypass the new legislation and you'll always find someone who will tell you what you want to hear.

[sg9015]