Job Discussion Forums

cam · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 124 Location: Maine, USA

I have just noticed an ad for a position at Kai Nan University. Does anyone have any information about the campus, teaching envirionment, staff, administration, etc. ? Any information from former teachers would also be appreciated. Thanks.

ScottSommers · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Taiwan

The school's website is located at
http://www.knu.edu.tw/2003/index.htm
They don't seem to have an English version available, however, the Department of Applied Foreign Languages has an English page at
http://www.knu.edu.tw/knu1/web/teach/foreign/AL07index.htm
The Website lists a large number of foreign teachers, so you might want to contact them and ask how they like working there. One of their foreign professors, Paul Clark, has a Website at
http://copernican.org/01.htm
You can probably find an e-mail on this site.
Keep in mind that the school is located in Taoyuan County. It's not likely there will be much to do out there, and depending on where it is, it could be hard to get to Taipei or even Taoyuan City.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

Be advised there is a two month waiting period between the time you start teaching at a national university and your first pay check. If there are any problems getting your work visa it is not likely you will be paid for those first two months.
You will also have a very difficult time filing a suit with the courts or any other government agency because you employer is the R.O.C. government and you will be working illegally .
Perhaps Mr. Scott Sommers would be willing to reimburse you for your lost wages.

higgins · Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 2

You might want to check out the connection between Kai Nan University and McGill University. Is Paul Clark a professor there? or is he a head hunter for McGill University? I have heard from one of my freinds that McGill, under the leadership of Dr. Clark, set up several teaching programs in China and that teachers had trouble with late pay from McGill, broken promises, and visa problems.

ScottSommers · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Taiwan

I agree you should approach this one with caution. It did seem strange to me that someone like Paul Clark would have his name on the Website of what appears to be a promoted junior college located in the middle of nowhere.

hkbunny · Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 4

Dr. Paul Clark is the same Dr. Clark once connected to McGill University. According to info on the Kai Nan website Clark is still connected with McGill but on the Copernicus website he is no longer with McGill. Anyway in the fall of 2002 I worked for a project in Beijing under the overall supervision of Clark when he was at McGill. Conditions were not as promised, pay was routinely late and the whole program seemed to me just a ploy for McGill to fill its coffers rather than further English education in China. Finally things fell apart and McGill owed monies to all foreign teachers involved in the project. Dr. Clark up and left his post at McGill at this time without a word to any of the teachers involved in this project. It took several months to discover he had gone on to greener pastures and nothing could be done re outstanding pay owed by McGill. My advice: steer clear of any overseas projects involving McGill or Paul Clark. In 15 years as an ESL/EFL teacher with qualifications that are on the up and up and 9 years experience in East Asia, this McGill project was the most unprofessionally administered and disappointing teaching position of my career.

MTurton · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 107

hkbunny · Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 4

According to Paul Clark's website at Copernican he is currently a prof. at Kai Nan University. So it seems Kai Nan has not merely hijacked his name for its school but that Clark is actually and actively involved. Furthermore he was directly involved in a joint McGill-China joint educational venture which, as I outlined in my earlier posting, was less than stellar.

riser · Joined: 26 Mar 2004 Posts: 8

This is definately a job to avoid. After reading the university home page it appears that McGill University might be connected with this place.

In 2002, I worked on the McGill-Limai project in Beijing. It was a complete disaster!

Late pay, inadequate housing, visa problems, water problems, a meaningless contract, ..... the list goes on.

We were supposed to be paid $3500 Can. a month but by the time we left Montreal the pay was lowered to $3000, visa expenses, health examinations, and meals were supposed to be covered. The food provided was unacceptable so we were forced to provide our own food and water. Visa costs were never reimbursed. The first pay was almost two months late. I was only paid on time once during my stay. After 5 months I informed McGill that I would leave the project early. We agreed that if I stayed to the end of the term, one more month that I would be paid in full for the last two months. Well, I am still waiting.....

blacky1 · Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 10

Taiwan Universities never advertise on Dave's ESL Cafe.

This one sounds odd.

hkbunny · Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Posts: 4

THE LINK BETWEEN McGILL, KAI NAN AND THE COPERNICAN ORG. DOES SEEM TO BE BONA FIDE IN THAT THE VARIOUS WEBSITES ALL LINK UP. HOWEVER, EXACTLY WHERE THE COPERNICAN ORG. GETS ITS FUNDING AND WHAT KIND OF ORGANIZATION IT IS (NGO? GOV'T FUNDED? PRIVATELY FUNDED?) AND EXACTLY WHAT PROJECTS IT FUNDS ARE VERY SKETCHY. AND, AGAIN FROM EXPERIENCE, I CAN VERIFY THAT WORKING FOR ONE OF McGILL'S OVERSEAS PROJECTS (READ "MONEY MAKING SCHEMES") IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. McGILL MAY HAVE A BIG REPUTATION BUT THE INTERNATIONAL EDUCATION DEPT. IS MOST DEFINITELY UNWORTHY OF THIS.

Paulclark · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 3

Hi there,
My name is Paul Clark and I�m the one who advertised the job for Kai Nan University. I�m always amazed that people never use their real names when they make internet postings. I suspect it is because they don�t want people to know who they really are. Why is that?

I used to work at McGill University as the director of the Faculty of Education International Office and we did have quite an extensive program where we sent teachers all over the world. Unfortunately, there are always some teachers who don�t work out. Both �hkbunny� and �riser� were employed at a private school in China where the administration and the students complained so much about their teaching and their attitudes that they were dismissed. They then maintained that even though they were fired they had �worked hard� and were entitled to more money. They complained to the project director, to me, to the accounting office at McGill, and ultimately the Dean of the Faculty of Education. They wrote emails for months (and evidently still are) complaining of their unfair treatment. I have no doubt that if they had spent half the time preparing for their classes as they did complaining then they would have been fine teachers.

In the end, all of their emails convinced McGill University that it was too much trouble to have an international program in education and closed the office (putting about a dozen people out of work). I left McGill very disappointed and looked for a small university where I could do some good teaching and take a break from all the politics of North American Universities. Unfortunately, there are some people that just cannot change.

There are all kinds of different teachers working around the world teaching English. Some are genuinely interested in education while others are basically only interested in how much money they can get.

In my opinion Kai Nan University is a wonderful young university with enormous possibilities. It has a young staff and the potential to be one of the great Universaties in Taiwan. If you would like to speak to any of our existing foreign professors then I�m sure they would be more than happy to talk to you and tell you what a great place it is.

Unfortunately, we are only accepting applications from PhDs right now as we want to increase the quality and reputation of the university. However, I welcome communication from any teachers who are interested in working in Taiwan.

Sincerely,

Paul Clark

We can do no great things, only small things with great love.
-Mother Teresa

Fortigurn · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 390

Well Paul, thanks for your post but I didn't see you actually address the key issues.

Taiwan has enough of a reputation of being a trap for the unwary ESL teacher. There are simply so many unscrupulous and dishonest dealers out there, that I've been almost completely turned off it.

You need to be squeaky clean. You need to have good references. You need to have a fine reputation.

I suggest that when you have this, you'll have more credibility. It's sad, but there you go.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

It never ceases to amaze me how people with a few letters after their name feel that any actions or associations are fully justified simply because of their own perceived status.
I would also like to take this opportunity to advise certain persons that if their actions are repeated in Taiwan SSETT would be obligated to intervene.
Good luck,
A.

ScottSommers · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Taiwan

Where did the original longer post go? I also received this post as e-mail from Dr. Clark.

Dr. Clark, it appears that you removed the posting. Why?