Job Discussion Forums

[overhere]

First, I want to say it is a pleasure visiting this site. I have been viewing the board for over a year. I admire the adventurous spirit of those of you teaching overseas.

OK here is the situation... I am 48 years old...I am employed in a management position here in the United States..Because I work in government I can secure my pension in 5 years. The problem is the job is no longer secure, due to state budget cuts, and I am just sick it. I am making decent enough dough but dread going to work every single day.

I am a native speaker, white, male and single. I have a little debt but it is managable.

I have several advanced degree (three non related master degrees and a J.D.)

I have worked in career development and as a corporate trainer for the past 20 years. I also have 3 years teaching experience. I am currently a volunteer ESL Teacher for a non profit organization.

I would like to secure a university teaching posiion in China...It sounds like 10,000 RMBs is what I should shoot for..is this correct?

My concern is my age...I am 48 years old and I know I am getting a bit long in the tooth to start an ESL career.

I would like to work in ESL for 10 to 12 years before calling it a career.

Is it realistic for me to
1) get a job
2) earn 10,000 RMBs a month
4) Would 10,000 RMBs be enough to live a reasonable life? I don't drink but would prefer eating out at western fast food restruants
3) be able to sustain a career until I offically retire at age 60 (I know this one may be a bit hard to answer)

I know this is a lot of ground to cover. I would appreciate any responses even if it to address only one of the questions.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you very much!!!

[roadwalker]

You are not too old for China or to start an EFL career, but you are taking a big gamble with your retirement. Right now, if the economy were good in the States, you are at peak earning potential. A few years in China will NOT, in most cases be seen as good experience and then you will be closer to retirement age, why not go with a younger worker etc. All depends on your situation and how much retirement security means to you. Also bear in mind that very few seem to want to stay in China for over a decade.

As for Chinese universities, few would pay anything near ten thousand RMB per month, no matter the advanced degrees. Many pay about half that and some better than half. There is enough down time that, depending on the location of the school, you would be able to supplement with private students or side teaching to up your take home to your goals. Not strictly allowed in some cases but sometimes you can do it with the school's blessing.

Otherwise, you mentioned you have taught: are you accredited? International schools pay better. Search the old threads for that topic. Another option is corporate work or language school work. The latter could possibly lead to the former if you teach business. I have no interest in either so I have no real advice there, but it seems that some posters here have attained decent salaries. Good luck.

[waxwing]

The very short answer is, yes, you can live on 10K RMB a month. (Sorry have to dash right now).

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[mike w]

Firstly- age.

Not too old at all. Myself and four of my colleagues can amass a total of 310 years between us, and the YOUNGEST is 54!! I started here when I was 41, and have been here 15 years.

Secondly - job.

With your qualifications and experience, I wouldn't be looking at university teaching. Aim for corporate training, you can easily double your salary expectations.

[Molson]

If I was you I would stay where I was long enough to collect that pension. After that, the sky is the limit. You won't need to care as much about what you make in China and can be picky.

[GypsyKingAdventures]

From my experience, (I'm 47, have my M.A.Ed, TESL cert, and have traveled and lived/worked in 16 countries so far including teaching high school kids in China which is where I am now) it sounds like you need someone to give you the harsh truth so here it is.

You've worked hard, you did everything right, you earned your academic credentials (even a J.D!) and now you've got five years left in a thank-less management position that will almost surely cut you like old bait just before you get to float on that golden parachute called a pension. Your soul is dying but there is light at the end of the noose.

But I can tell you that teaching English around the world is one of the most powerful ways I found to create a life full of daily challenges, a life that adds value to other people not a corporation, and is just simply more fun than anything in the corporate prison of 9-5. But this is not for the feint of heart or for those who want to play it safe. You have to make sacrifices to get here and maybe one of your sacrifices to yourself should be to bail out of the rat race early, screw them before they screw you, and get out there and start living the life you really deserve. Rely on yourself now and a few years you'll laugh at the thought of giving anybody five more years for a little money every month.

Or, spend the next few years simplifying your life, getting out of any debt you have, trimming all excesses, and once you get your well-deserved pension come on over here - this is a lifestyle and you can join us at anytime.

What you really need is a reason to leave all that behind, a reason that is stronger than your need to continue working HOPING you get that pension you feel you earned. Who can say what you should do? Not me and not anyone on here either...

If you want to chat, just send me an email anytime at sean.manofadventure at yahoo..

Good luck!

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Short answers:

10k a month and you will do fine in China.

As others have said, universities don't often pay this much to their foreign staff

You might want to think twice about the fast food route. Depending on where you are, the options are sometimes limited to KFC, KFC, and maybe if you are lucky KFC. McDonald's perhaps in the bigger cities...

Personally, I'd save "teaching English" for when I turn 60 and get that pension. Any pension money is more than enough on it's own to live well in China. Any additional salary is a bonus and allows you to be flexible with your jobns, ie. not being stuck in one teaching job if you don't like it for financial reasons.

As for age, you are never too old to start teaching in China. Japan yes, Korea perhaps. But not in China, so long as you have that "white face".

[coledavis]

I'm new to the China forum, as I'm intending to be a temp here before going back to Russia (or somewhere - Mr Rootless personified), but I think I've got a useful suggestion.

Liverpool University have a new campus in China. http://www.xjtlu.edu.cn/

You may be interested in looking at the site and at the 'job vacancies' section. I cite from http://www.xjtlu.edu.cn/attach/jobs/at-eng.pdf

Their associate tutors, grade A, are accepted with CELTA or possibly other similar qualifications with some experience, but they will consider pre-qualification experience such as training. Also, I figure with your extensive experience, they would be very interested. The minimum salary is 12,500 RMB, with travel allowance, accommodation allowance, relocation allowance. When you pick up relevant experience and take the DELTA, then presumably (you would need to find out, as I'm merely presuming) you would be eligible to get to grade B, which reaches 19,900 at top.

Also, I would be surprised if Liverpool University allowed their twin the indulgence of turning down people on the grounds of age.

[Hansen]

How many more years of "quiet desperation" to get that pension? How about a dose of pancreatic cancer or becoming an alcoholic in the meantime? I know four people who died just before or after retirement from cancer, heart attack or accident. I really don't know that many people, either.

With or without a good TESOL credential, you should be able to get yourself a nice job in China. Top universities may pay less than others but the prestige is there, if that interests you.

In some provinces, age is DEFINITELY an issue. People are being denied FEC's and turned out of jobs. Enforcement is not uniform. Certain places/schools may be off limits once you get above 60,62,65.

The state of FTs in China is another issue to seriously consider. It may be, in 10 years, or even 3 or 5 years, that the age issue will become uniform. An FT, about 60, recently dropped dead, on campus in this city. Another required major surgery shortly after arriving. Authorities are going to watch these things. What they eventually decide is uncertain. The age limit may be enforced or skirted with greater regularity

Health insurance is now mandatory for this FT. It wasn't just two years ago.

If possible, try a leave of absence from your job for a year. You may find China unbearable.

Don't believe those who insist that things in China are a certain way. They are not. They should know that, unless they are noobies themselves.

Noobie blunder # 5.1,a: Thinking that the way things are for you means they are, or will be, that way for others.

[brsmith15]

I came when I was 60 and worked here until I neared 70 when my uni said they could no longer fib to the local education office about my age. If memory serves, men working at state unis need to retire at 65, women at 60. I had a great Chinese boss (somewhat a rarity here) who'd go to bat for me, but the years simply got to be too much, the grey and wrinkles too pronounced.

Anyway, I'm enjoying retirement here and was able to save enough from my last job to support us for 5 more years. Then? Well, the men in our family rarely make it beyond their late 70s and after a rather checkered and peripatetic life, I'd be more than ready. When you gotta go, you gotta go!

[Hansen]

As Br. Smith has pointed out, school FAOs do engage in various forms of fraud, forgery, corruption, and deceit to secure positions for FTs. They must deceive the provincial FAO office in order to get the FEC. Of course, problems do arise. For instance, in one case,a young FT was compelled by her school FAO to blatantly lie to the authorities in order to cover up the fraud he had perpetrated to hire her.

My guess is that if you sign a document you know is false, if there is a problem, the onus will be entirley on the FT. Don't expect an opportunity to "explain" or confront other individuals. The very culture here has devolved to prevent confrontation and discovery of truth. The layers of subterfuge run so deep that to begin unearthing them is something our hosts want to avoid at all costs. The matters will be settled behind our back. You will have little or no opportunity to do anything other than confess, deny, or apologize. Forget about justice, truth,and so forth.

Something to keep in mind, however: in case of discovery, whatever is said, the FT may be the only one punished. You may be fined and expelled. Where the fines end up is anyone's guess. Perhaps the FAO of your school receives a small %, or even a larger than expected amount.

Some people from western countries are a bit uncomfortable participating in fraud, forgery, corruption, and deceit immediately upon arriving in China. Others not so much.

[coledavis]

One can probably 'get away with' not having a decent teaching qualification, but do you really get away with it? Are students always going to fail to differentiate good from lousy teaching? Anyway, the higher paying institutions, e.g. the one I mentioned, are going to be much more likely to want to take you if you have the CELTA. Yes, I know, it's a brand name, but that's the market for you.

[Hansen]

If you plan to work at a school which specifically requires CELTA, by all means, do CELTA. Otherwise, CELTA is virtually unknown in many parts of China. The circumstances allow few CELTA techniques to be implemented in classes of fifty or more non motivated students. It's relatively expensive. In many situations, you'll need to work several months to recoup the cost.

Consider tuition, food and lodging. If you must travel to take CELTA, in the past, one might work an entire year to break even. Things are a bit different now.

CELTA certainly has some excellent techniques. The useful ones for China could be acquired in several hours.

[coledavis]

Well, I guess if you know you're staying in China and only China. You could do the Aston deal. You pay a small amount for their training course (in return for working for them) and even get a refund for that if you stay long enough. Having said that, I happened to chat with Aston's rep today and he seemed impressed by the CELTA. Up to you, but I like to know what I'm doing! Especially if leaping into a new career.