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peruisay
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Deepest China
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 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| chinatwin88 wrote: |
| A franchise should have standardized answers. |
Sure.
Teachers should be well paid and respected.
Everyone should have a loving home.
Countries should not wage wars.
It's a franchise - not a chain. You know how sometimes Papa John's or KFC advertises something for "all participating locations"?
That is a franchise.
Google this and get back to me. |
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chinatwin88
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 379
Location: Peking
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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So are you saying that there are no standards for this franchise?
I thought EF had "company own schools" and "franchisees".
Why would I Google Papa Johns and what does pizza have to do with English mills .
Does EF advertise �all participating locations" when running job ads? |
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peruisay
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Deepest China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| chinatwin88 wrote: |
| So are you saying that there are no standards for this franchise? |
Franchises sign franchise agreements. I am not privy to those terms.
I wouldn't know whether or not this or that individual school follows the terms of their respective agreements.
Some must not. Hence franchise licenses being revoked. Again, it is tough to give a definite answer. I've said that.
| Quote: |
| I thought EF had "company own schools" and "franchisees". |
The post I was responding to was about franchises. Hence the discussion of franchises.
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| Why would I Google Papa Johns and what does pizza have to do with English mills. |
The pizza chain is an example of another - possibly more familiar - franchising arrangement.
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| Does EF advertise �all participating locations" when running job ads? |
Honestly, I have no idea.
(Sorry if I don't come across as very helpful or friendly. I promise that I am not being intentionally rude or what-have-you.) |
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chinatwin88
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 379
Location: Peking
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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So when you said that "most schools are franchises (especially out of the larger markets). This means that pay / holiday / weekend work / evening work / free days / office hours / promo work are up to the individual schools", what you meant was "I wouldn't know whether or not this or that individual school follows the terms of their respective agreements".
Standards of employment are indeed set by the company and it is the responsibility of the company to insure that the holders of the franchise live up to a standardized method of operation to include employment.
and no they don�t advertise that some locations may not be participating in their hiring standards and practices. Perhaps they should. |
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Jordean
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Jordean wrote: |
12,300 rmb is low? Other than people on this forum, I don't know anyone in BJ who makes anything approaching that. With advanced degrees and teaching experience.
I am always flummoxed by these salary claims. Unless you're working a solid 40 hours a week, perhaps...
Good luck. |
I think you under-appreciate the value of us foreigners. I've made upwards of 18,000 RMB a month working 30-hour weeks.
The lowest going rate where I am is 100 RMB an hour, so do the math and don't try to drive our wages into the ground please. |
I'm not trying to drive salaries anywhere. The people I know in BJ are all attorneys teaching at a uni. None of us makes more than 9000 from that gig alone. If you have lots of independents, then that is not a salary. For the posters earning the kinds of money you are talking about, are you paying taxes on all that scratch? Do you have clearance from your primary employer to work on the side?
Yeah there are all sorts of offers floating around on the side. And I would have to say if you consider 100 RMB a "going rate" then GWW is driving wages into the ground. That is not an acceptable figure for part-time work in my book. Not for Beijing at any rate.
The OP was talking about the offered salary in X job. I simply stated I don't know anybody (i.e., real people, not internet posters I cannot vouch for) making that much at their day job here. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: |
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I don't know anybody (i.e., real people, not internet posters I cannot vouch for) making that much at their day job here.
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Then possibly you aren't looking very hard, or you simply don't know many people in BJ.
There are plenty of people here making more than 12,300 monthly from their primary (and in many cases, only) day job. |
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spunkmonkey
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: * |
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| I hate Korean food. Thai food is good but the Chinese language is much more interesting. |
Can you eat the Chinese language?
12,000+ for a language mill, working with very little responsibility and possibly having no qualifications in education isn't so bad. And unless you want beer and western food every night, you will manage well enough.
The problem with many so-called teachers is that they come to Asia bringing nothing to their employers with the exception of a tefl scrap of paper and expect the world.
Master a few basic phrases and shop locally. You will eat well, save enough and have a decent time of it.
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Eating well has nothing to do with how much money you earn - but knowing what goes into the making of your food.
Eating 100% in Chinese restaurants - well if you intend to spend any amount of time in China - then you're starting to run a risk - that spans from MSG intake, badly stored food-stuffs, poor hygiene etc etc.
If you want to have a little more check on eating well - then make sure you have a living space that contains decent cooking facilities - at least then you can select your own cooking materials and make sure that the cooking area is clean - and have the chance to get away from an existence of constantly having to eat at a restaurant.
PS - the number of incredible ingredients you can find here is quiet awesome - and Chinese produced food-stuffs really are one of the bargains of China  |
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spunkmonkey
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: * |
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Master a few basic phrases and shop locally. You will eat well, save enough and have a decent time of it.
I was referring to being independent enough to buy your own ingredients and having the basic smarts to prepare your own food - as we would do in the west.
There isn't any MSG in fruit, veg and meat when bought directly from the vendor.
You can't eat out every night at home on your social security check, so why do you expect to be able to do it here?
Evaluate what you bring to your employer and have realistic expectations. You will ultimately get paid what you deserve and live your life according to this.
The world doesn't owe you a living simply because you can speak English.
12,000+ is fine. Unless you have relevant qualifications and experience, there is no reason to moan. I am disappointed why so many people on here seem to think that they are above these simple facts.
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was referring to being independent enough to buy your own ingredients and having the basic smarts to prepare your own food - as we would do in the west.
There isn't any MSG in fruit, veg and meat when bought directly from the vendor |
Cheers Spunkey - so the next question, since that Beijing job goes without EF providing an apartment - is how much rent do you pay in BJ for a room with decent kitchen - then we'll see how much money is left for buying in that food!!!!! |
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spunkmonkey
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: * |
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If you have been in China for more than a week and you can't master the language enough to buy food, you are probably not too smart.
Check out the following offer:
Compensation:
Our benefits:
Term of contract: 12 months
1. Working Day: 5 days per work
2. Salary: Starting salary: 6000RMB
Going up to 7000RMB at six months
The salary for more experienced teachers is negotiable.
3. Bonus: When you complete a 12 month contract, you will receive 10000RMB bonus..
5. Accommodation: Help find a full accommodation for teachers. But teachers need to pay the rent fee and deposit.
6. Holiday: 12 days public holiday.
I expect that all the teachers at this school - according to your argument - are dying of hunger.
There are hundreds of examples of offers such as this; however I am yet to read about FT's dropping down dead from malnutrition.
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| There are hundreds of examples of offers such as this; however I am yet to read about FT's dropping down dead from malnutrition. |
That kind of job and wages - ones that have remained stagnant for years, despite the rise in cost of living - a perfect example of why Chinese EFL is where it is.
Might not lead to starvation - but certainly doesn't lead to much room for professional development within the industry. It's a wage good enough for those who will quickly pass through, have other means of support or are patiently hoping for that rare stepping stone to something better - but those wanting something more secure and permanent - the fact that employers are so interested on recruiting the cheap can make for a difficult life.:
Of course there are better offers - but in reality China EFL is swamped by the lower paying bad-quality gigs - which taints the whole market. |
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alter ego
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:36 am Post subject: Re: * |
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| spunkmonkey wrote: |
| If you have been in China for more than a week and you can't master the language enough to buy food, you are probably not too smart. |
You don't need to know any Mandarin to buy food for cooking at home in Shenzhen (and I'm guessing also in Beijing, where the OP is considering employment). Unless I'm guessing wrong (and please let me know if I am) the OP will have a variety of foreign-owned superstores currently open for business in China to choose from:
Metro (German)
Carrefore (French)
Jusco (Japanese, subsidiary of �ON)
IKEA (Swedish, thanks Cleric!)
Walmart (American)
There are also a few small international food shops in one of the main foreigner stomping grounds in Shenzhen, where my wife and I buy real grated parmesan cheese, real flour tortillas, and real mayonnaise.
Learning some survival Chinese � and even mastering the language � to use when grocery shopping is a great idea, but probably not necessary in the Chinese capital.
Last edited by alter ego on Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:46 am Post subject: |
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good points above about the language alter ego. you dont need to know mandarin to walk into a store and fill up a cart. but spunkymonkey is also right, in that anyone who cant learn the bare minimum of the language in case they need help in the store is probably either lazy or not too switched on. there are plenty of people around who fit either category.
(one correction: ikea is swedish i think) |
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