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Yiren
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: PBS requires ORIGINAL copies of degrees /diplomas |
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Our university has required new teachers to submit original (not scanned or photocopied) degrees or diplomas. The explanation is that the PBS will now not issue work /residence permits without these originals.
Has anyone else encountered this request? Has a new law been introduced?
Yiren |
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Renegade_o_Funk
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Where in China are you located, Yiren ? I find that a little odd they are requiring the original. My residence permit was processed without a hickup just a few weeks ago in Beijing, with just a scanned copy. I would think if anywhere implemented this rule, it would be Beijing/Shanghai. |
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Yiren
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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We're in Wuxi, Jiangsu province. Teachers who arrived on 19th September were told to bring their original degrees with them from abroad. A scan would not suffice. The ruling is from the police! (or is it?)
Yiren |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I have never heard of this, although it sounds like in your office at least they have changed the rules. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I had to show my original degrees and certificates when I was arrived in Zhuhai in 2004. They told me before I came that I would need them. (I had to request a new one from one of the colleges because I couldn't find it. They charged 10 or 20 dollars but it was no big deal.) I'm in Fujian now and I only needed to show scanned copies when I started here.
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slayer6719
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Location: Somewhere between here and there!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I,m in Fujian too. I only had to show a scanned copy of my certificates  |
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nobleignoramus
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 208
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Just out of curiosity: Why would anyone have any objection to showing original documents to police officials in person?
It's not about applying for a job from overseas, is it? It's about moving from one employer to another in-country. |
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Yiren
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Till now, scans were fine at this school. Now new teachers who have recently from abroad have to hand over their originals to the FAO. They get them back after a week or ten days. One teacher who did not have it (and is waiting for it to be couriered from abroad) was issued a residence permit anyway, despite the original explanation that it is a police issued prerequisite. We suspect that the school wants the originals for scanning.
This request has come at the same time as the school started to demand that we do the Evaluation System Registration (on-line questionnaire and psychological test) at http://202.96.25.8/IntlHR/login.php (a non-secure site). We have been told that a new law makes it mandatory for all foreign teachers in China to do the "test" and "registration" as a prerequisite for residence and work permit as of next semester.
None have complied so far. The feeling is here is that we are being lied to about both matters. |
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thessy
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Xi'an
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| nobleignoramus wrote: |
Just out of curiosity: Why would anyone have any objection to showing original documents to police officials in person?
It's not about applying for a job from overseas, is it? It's about moving from one employer to another in-country. |
For some it's easy to replace a lost degree, for me it would involve a $900 plane ticket, a 5 hour drive from the nearest major airport, a night in a hotel, a 5 hour drive back to the airport, then the flight back here. My university requires such requests be made in person.
I wouldn't want to show my original documents is because I'm much more keen on keeping them in a safe deposit box 'back home' than here in my apartment (accessible by a dozen Uni staff who 'could' get a key), in my bags when traveling, or even in my own bumbling hands. |
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nobleignoramus
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 208
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Thessy,
900 yuan isn't a life-threatening amount of cash from your savings account, is it? Why do you keep it in one place and live in another?
The employer's interest is to see whether you are abona fide owner of degrees and certs, or whether your photocopies or scans are forgeries.
In the West I always had to show original documents when applying for a new position. I never questioned that. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Just out of curiosity: Why would anyone have any objection to showing original documents to police officials in person?
It's not about applying for a job from overseas, is it? It's about moving from one employer to another in-country. |
Using common sense to think over this new demand - the only way an employer/PSB can properly check the authenticity of an educational document is by checking the details written on the document with the issuing authority against the ID documentation of the person who handed in those documents. For this to happen it doesn't matter if the document is copy or original!!!!!!!!!!
If Chinese authorities believe that handing in so-called original documents, on its own, will stem the tide of false credentials - well, in reality, all they're doing is encouraging a better quality of forgery:lol:  : lol:
Maybe the PSB have a special machine - like you use to check for fake bank notes - they chuck a wad of a 100 degrees into it, and as it flicks through, it red-lights the duds!!!!!!!!! |
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GypsyKingAdventures
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 25
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: Maybe... |
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it's their 'polite' way of saving your face when they don't really want to hire you so they find a way to nicely weed you out of the opportunity....to require the original is ridiculous and makes no sense at all...hmmm...maybe that is their new rule after all...  |
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Jayray
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 373
Location: Back East
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: |
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If the PSB has access to all of the mills that crank out bogus degrees, this recent move will be a step in the right direction.
In 2004, the Chinese consulate website stated that in order for a Z visa to be issued to a teacher, the degrees had to be "authenticated" by local authorities, the U.S. Dept. of State, and the Chinese consulate. Whether this was a current requirement at the time was debatable, but I went ahead and went through that whole mess because it appeared on the consulate website. My degrees look like h3ll, but they've got all kinds of signatures, stamps and accompanying letters of authenticity, including something from the Chinese consulate.
I'm unsure if it even "proves" that my degrees are bona fide. They sure do look official and they look like they've been thoroughly inspected by a tea drinker. There's a tea cup ring on one of the letters of authenticity! |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If the PSB has access to all of the mills that crank out bogus degrees, this recent move will be a step in the right direction |
Well Im sure the cynic could think - it's all the bureaucratic demand for this and that piece of paper - and them checking them out over a cup of tea rather than a phone or the internet - that fuels the bogus degree scam - both from the mass of local print shops that advertise fake-production on every corner - to the so-called foreign experts whose main qualification is understanding how easy it is to beat the system.
The ultra cynic could write - by putting more pressure on the mills to follow regulations, there's more scope for giving a bit of strong-arm - and the chance of earning an extra red-envelope or two.
Forgery is such a daily way of life here - we're never sure if the money we're given - even from banks - is the real thing  |
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thessy
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Xi'an
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| nobleignoramus wrote: |
Thessy,
900 yuan isn't a life-threatening amount of cash from your savings account, is it? Why do you keep it in one place and live in another?
The employer's interest is to see whether you are abona fide owner of degrees and certs, or whether your photocopies or scans are forgeries.
In the West I always had to show original documents when applying for a new position. I never questioned that. |
$900 USD, not 900RMB. I did not attend a Chinese University - I would need to fly 'home' and then onward for a bit after that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to require originals, just pointing out that some people who have nothing to hide may have valid reason to not be in favor of such a rule. |
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