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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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 Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:56 am Post subject: Not acceptable |
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For the record, I never said that I believe GEOS is closing up shop. I posted those links so that people could see the information circulating about GEOS' late pay situation.
I recommended that you get out because the company is not respecting labor laws by failing to pay on time. That's not acceptable. |
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Angelfish
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:31 am Post subject: |
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All head office computers are down. Something sinister or just a coincidence...? 
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Good Morning everyone,
As you may or may not have heard the Head offices PCs are down and we
cannot access our email accounts. If you need to contact your trainer,
please call the office directly.
Thank you |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| ShioriEigoKyoushi wrote: |
We shouldn't really be eagerly anticipating the downfall of any organisation that so many people's livelihoods or aspirations depend on, nor should we be precipitating it with gleeful encouragement of them to "jump ship". What exactly would they be jumping into? For months now regulars have been insisting the market is saturated, and there are no jobs between November and March. Perhaps a few more late salaries would be better for some than none at all.
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I don't see the "gleefulness" that you are referring to anywhere in this thread- I think you are reading something into people's posts that wasn't intended at all. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if Geos goes down or not- I don't know anyone that works/studies there, and I certainly don't have any emotions invested in it.
What I encouraged people to do here and elsewhere is to have a back-up plan. Even with storm clouds gathering for months beforehand, so many of the ex-Nova teachers found themselves with hardly 2 yen to rub together when Nova failed to pay them- remember the "English lessons for food" thing? Any Geos teachers out there should be making sure they have some savings put aside and are not living paycheque to paycheque, just in case. Geos may well weather whatever storms it's facing, but if it doesn't?
As for advising them to "jump ship", if Geos goes down, they won't have any choice, will they? Do you think it's better to get out early, or wait until the last minute? I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that people start to think "What would I do if...?" |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Not acceptable |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
| For the record, I never said that I believe GEOS is closing up shop. |
Correct.
I said it, and I stand by that statement.
My posts are not 'gleeful'. They are hard hitting, straight forward business-minded posts.
People who are not paid should leave immediately. Their time is better spent looking for a new job. Since in Japan the visa is mobile and portable, they have this freedom. Move into a guesthouse with some friends, and network and get a new job. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| cornishmuppet wrote: |
| I'd have to agree with Shiori that this thread has no hard evidence to suggest anything about GEOS going under. |
I strongly disagree. My years of experience tells me in my gut that they are going down. To tell others to wait for 'hard evidence' is playing against the best interests of teachers currently working at GEOS. all the micro and macro economic signs are there, the anecdotal evidence is there, the emails, the hard sell to get monthly cashflow, the computer system going down, no access to email (so no one can warn anyone of the coming closure, share inter-office intel on who is doing what...), this ramping up the week before payday - all of these are classic signs of impending collapse.
One or two? Maybe a hoax. But in the aggregate? No - too many signs that match up with my knowledge and experience.
If I were working there, I would have left by now per my advice that I stand by.
If this were to happen to me at a school, I would behave just as I have posted.
P.S. Their English site is down:
http://www.geos-network.com/
http://www.geos-school.com/ |
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ShioriEigoKyoushi
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Text deleted
Last edited by ShioriEigoKyoushi on Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| ShioriEigoKyoushi wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
| If I were working there, I would have left by now per my advice that I stand by. |
Exactly, so by your own admission you're a little late to be advising "in the best interests" of remaining Geos teachers. If what you say is true, the wise hands will already have scarpered. All that will remain now is the stampede of those who didn't see it coming sooner. Encouraging people to join that irrespective of their financial position or how long their current role may remain viable is hardly in anyone's "best interests". |
Warning those there as soon as I found out was the wise and ethical thing to do. Anyone still there should leave because that company is going down. Just because the smarter ones left earlier is no justification for those left to continue on. Such a suggestion is profoundly unwise.
I base this upon my experience outside of ESL. Whilst I have 49 posts and few hours in the classroom, I know the signs of when a business is collapsing, from my several decades in the US corporate world. This scenario has all the signs, and they are accelerating.
If teachers there are in a bad financial place, the best thing for them to do is spend their time getting a new job. Working for GEOS in this situation is foolish, even if the fts are broke. They will be just as broke in another month, still hoping to "recoup".
Why you would suggest they stay is beyond me.
Truly, your advice is horrible.
Last edited by norwalkesl on Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ShioriEigoKyoushi
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ShioriEigoKyoushi wrote: |
| You seem insistent that people do what you say. I am suggesting they decide for themselves. Why is it so important to you that they don't? |
Because I know the signs of impending business collapse and you do not.
Because following your advice will cost them money.
Because following my advice will save them money. |
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ShioriEigoKyoushi
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting how many have leaped to defend their posts here while simultaneously claiming that what I've written does not apply to them. If the cap doesn't fit, why are you wearing it?
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I assume that I am one of the people you are referring to, but I'm afraid I have no idea what these two sentences mean. All I suggested was that people have an escape plan- again, anything wrong with that? If you didn't mean me, it would be helpful if you could you make your posts less general and say exactly who you disagree with. Who are the "many" that have "leaped to defend their posts"? |
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ShioriEigoKyoushi
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Text deleted
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Well if you don't think the concerns I raised can legitimately be applied to what you wrote, why are you countering them? |
Because I genuinely didn't see any gleefulness in anyone's posts and I wished to say so, not because I actually posted anything that could be construed as gleeful and now wish to distance myself from what I wrote. Defending what I said doesn't necessarily mean I am admitting guilt, merely that I wish to clarify my position.
I am afraid I find your posts somewhat confusing, and they are only becoming more so, so I'm going to leave it with this one. My points were, Geos is a company that has been showing some worrying signs of instability. People who work for Geos are free to consider what I say or ignore it, but if I were working there I would be getting some savings together and keeping a firm eye on the situation, while looking for possible next steps. I have nothing invested in the outcome of the situation there in one way or another, just giving some friendly advice.
Last edited by Apsara on Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OneJoelFifty
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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To summarise for the people that don't want to get involved in the political power struggles of the Dave's ESL Cafe literati:
Whichever way you look at it, GEOS doesn't look like an ideal employer and anyone working for them should at the very least have in mind a backup plan, in the event they find themselves unemployed without pay. At the other end of the spectrum, GET OUT NOW!
Lots of information though, I'm curious to see how it will pan out. |
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Ryu Hayabusa
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that GEOS teachers shouldn't quit yet. I don't believe the advice is horrible, norwalkesl. Although, I do agree with you in thinking that GEOS is about to go supernova.
The following is a summary of some advice that I've gleaned from eslcafe and other forums:
GEOS teachers, stay with GEOS until it goes under. In the mean time, apply for jobs and spend your time in GEOS trying to get as many private students as you can. Think of it this way, if you quit now you'll have no income coming in and you'll be hitting the pavement looking for jobs. If you stay (and assuming GEOS doesn't pay) you'll still have no income coming in but will be able to network and try to pick up some private students. It is still possible to apply for jobs and go to interviews while remaining an employee. If GEOS isn't paying, just do what some Nova teachers did and call in sick. Don't show up for work if you can't or don't want to. You can pound the pavement and go to job interviews while still being a GEOS employee. The key is to not quit. Quitting might mean a delay in receiving unemployment insurance benefits or outright ineligibility. |
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