Job Discussion Forums

[Knexus]

I believe I got what I paid for when it comes to everything Oxford Seminars. However, I'm thoroughly on the fence about how I should feel about the Placement Services portion of Oxford Seminars' ~$1000 tuition. I still think Oxford is the most reputable way to go for people who have little to no educational experience, including recent experience. That said, I think people should see my story with Placement Services so far if a primary motivator (like mine) in pursuing Oxford Seminars' certification was the "guarantee" of a job.

What follows is my story, a recent college grad with non-ESL teaching experience:

Do not let the "Top Ten Country Profiles" on the website fool you. Within the top ten you will find detailed job information about Germany, Spain, and Italy. When you show up for your first day of the seminar you will be given a "Job Search Manual". If by that time you haven't become familiar with the all but impossible nature of finding a job in EU countries, the manual will set you straight on Placement Services' actual position for employment there. According to the manual, all Placement Services can do for you if you seek employment in an EU country (or one associated with the EU) is give you a list and suggest you backpack off to the doorsteps of companies in-country. The manual states, "There are several job opportunities in Eastern Europe. Oxford Seminars has excellent placements in Turkey, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic." None of those countries are in their "Top Ten Country Profiles". My advisor has yet to mention any of them.

Your teacher won't be of much help on questions related to Placement Services either. Even their advice might be useless if they fail to understand the increasingly strict legal and working environment of the EU in the past 5 years.

If by now you are thinking, "Okay, Japan" you may again feel disappointed. I am still not exactly sure where these thousands of schools Oxford has "connections" with are located. I have been told by my placement advisor I should "Focus on China, Taiwan, Thailand, and South Korea". I already said I'd be ready to go anywhere in Europe, Japan, or Thailand. I don't see the value of Oxford if Placement Services is only able to really help with getting a job in these countries that often don't require any sort of certification - if even a college degree.

What I will say for Placement Services is that I do feel confident in my advisor's advice for my cover letter and resume. However, I'm doing my best to not become bitter. I do not feel I am asking to "wake up with the Eiffel Tower in my window", to paraphrase another statement from Placement Services, but I do feel there is a bit of shady stuff going on.

Again, I am only a few months into my search for a job and have only been working with Placement Services for about a month. Hopefully things will work for the better. Until then, if this post gets any attention, I will keep those interested updated in this thread.

[Marquess]

If you are going to do a 4 week course do the CELTA or Trinity-anything else is useless. The job service as you point out is useless since you could have gotten those bottom feeder jobs without the crappy piece of paper you paid for.

[BenE]

I got a CELTA and got a job within 3 days in Vietnam. These substandard TEFL courses can only offer an introduction to the EFL world and cannot properly perpare you to be thrown into a teaching environment.

My school and the schools I know of here in Vietnam would not consider you. The market is flooded with people with CELTAs and experience.

[nickpellatt]

Unfortunately, companies like Oxford Seminars exist purely to part you and your cash as quick as possible. The training is sub-standard and doesnt meet any industry norms, and the fact they mention EU placements on their website, conveniently forgetting EU employment rules confirms they have no interest in a genuine service, but a genuine interest in your hard earned.

Fact is the places that would employ you with this cert, would also employ you without it.

Better value is buying a book like 'learning teaching' and signing up to TEFL.com

[jhhnow]

I agree with Marquess.

[Knexus]

A lot has happened since I made my original posts concerning Oxford and my experience with the Job search as a newb.

For starters, my Oxford adviser put me into contact with Alistair Wery. When AW contacted me the consultant (who never gave his name) said he wanted to setup an interview. This gave me the impression AW was a school funded by the Korean government. It's not. It turns out it was a recruitment agency. After three nights waiting for them to call at our agreed upon time (10pm my time) the consultant finally called on the third night. He has since said he cannot work with me.

Here's the story on that (and my first question). Over a year ago I was to participate in the first session of TaLK. However, after months of getting no answers to questions (or taking weeks to get answers) from the MoE in Korea the final nail in the coffin on a deal that seemed incredibly off at least administratively happened for me when my ticket did not arrive until about 24 hours before they wanted me in Chicago for a flight to Korea (I live two states away from Chicago). Our tickets were supposed to have been mailed to us over a week before departure. I informed the representatives from the MoE and the sponsoring University (I would teach in a rural school and live on campus taking classes) that I had no way of getting to Chicago on such short notice and would not be attending the TaLK program. With so many things going wrong before I even left America was it wrong of me to be cautious and skeptical - even if I was just lost by them in the shuffle of hundreds? My question is, if I have been banned (as the consultant has lead me to believe, but won't say if he actually talked to the government), don't I have a chance to defend myself?

My adviser has also put me into contact with the Candian Language School in Slovakia, a contact in Taiwan, and some of the big names in corporate learning in Japan - AEON, Amity, and the Interac Network.

Second, anyone ever heard of "Fifth Wings" I'm not sure if this is a school or a recruitment agency. I found their job posting for Japan on the cafe back on July 28th and sent my info. I can't find a website for them, nor can I find anyone in any forum who has heard of them/worked with them.

That's all for now. Thank you all for the constructive comments. If this job stuff continues to go sour I think I'll finalize my enrollment in grad school to pursue my MA in TESL.

[naturegirl321]

Recruiters aren{t the way to go, Unless you like to get the run around and get paid less. I've had some call me at 3am! I made the mistake of recently trying to go through one. I signed a contract, then they changed it afterwards. I was supposed to be there in two weeks, and the visa took three weeks to get. PLUS, they wanted me to go all the way back to the US to get a visa. When the embassy here in Peru said that that wasn't necessary since I live here. The recruiter refused to believe me, then told me to come on a tourist visa.

Looks like you've been blacklisted by the MoE. Don{t worry , there are private schools out there.

Fifth Wings, I've heard of them, but can't remember what they are. Did you try posting on the Japan forum?

[nickpellatt]

I commented earlier that your course provider isnt up to scratch, and it appears that the job finding service isnt either. Their claims are obviously outright lies and untruths.

It appears they are just trying to palm you off onto recruiters?

I would suggest writing off Oxford Seminars and putting it down to experience. Far better to begin a job search on TEFL.com or something, and just apply to schools and colleges directly.

Do you have a degree, and are you willing to try China? I do know someone who may be looking for white, native speakers with BA/BSc qualifications. Ill PM you some details...if you want to follow it up its up to you

[spiral78]

To be 'fair' to Oxford, almost all 'job placement services' are essentially scams. The best case scenario is that a course provider can put a new teacher in touch with reputable schools, but it's always going to be the case that the newbie will have to provide a CV, go through an interview and possible demo lesson process, and sign (or not) a contract on his/her own.

This is another reason that there are some advantages to taking a course in the region where you want to start teaching - your course provider should have real info regarding reputable schools in the area, and be able to give a newbie more direct contacts.

I agree with Nick that handing a new grad off to recruiters doesn't reflect well on a course provider promising 'job placement.'

[Glenski]

Let's see.

You have a BS degree. To get into teaching EFL/ESL, you'll either need to start on the bottom run or get darned lucky with a TEFL certification. You shouldn't expect to start much higher than that bottom rung anyway.

You say you can't afford to move to a country and look for work, so you are relegated to staying at home. Ok. Understandable. So, you've been in touch with a few of the biggie employers in Japan (the only country I can advise you on). They do hire from abroad. What has happened? (P.S. In your post you only mentioned two of the biggies. AEON and Amity are one and the same.)

You wrote in response to my query:

[QueenJane]

Hi folks. I just completed a 60 hr. Oxford Seminars TESOL Certification course, in Berkeley, California so can add to the discussion.

Our group of about 13 students was fortunate to have a really excellent, trained teacher. The books and other materials were informative and current. However, trying to cram that much info into 60 hours is just not going to work. Everything is gone over very quickly, and there really isn't much opportunity to let things sink in, and become truly 'learned.' I can 'chalk it up to experience' as one person suggested - and I will use the placement service for as much as it is useful to me, but on the whole I would suggest just going with one of the more extensive programs. Judging by many other posts, that will be a better way to go when looking for a job. Well, live and learn. Good luck, all.

[otuzbirci]

Do the CELTA. `nuff said.

[khmerhit]

Yeah do the Celta--I did only after having taught for a few yrs and i realized right away how it could have would have made my life vastly more bearable













C A M B O D I A
try it and see

[Hogarth]

Thank you for this! I did an Oxford Seminars cert over a year ago and have been delaying using the placement services. I feel that course prepared me well enough for writing and planning lessons (the instructor was amazing and taught the same courses at the university that are TESL Canada certified), but I was stuttering and nervous the few times I did get up and teach, so I got a $1000 lesson on the value of teaching practicums! Their teaching placement was the selling point for me, so finding this out made me a bit angry Their website now has a country report that I don't remember seeing, though- it mentions peak hiring season/salaries/income tax/largest chain schools, and "Visa: Difficult for non-EU citizens, employer must prove teacher is expert in his/her field and that they are not taking the position from another EU citizen. Employer must be willing to sponsor visa." Ah, well, at least I'll get an amazing cover letter for my future bottom feeding job, which I guess I'm at the bottom of the heap to get hired too. Yay!

[naturegirl321]