Job Discussion Forums

goodwork002002 · Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 22 Location: Massachusetts, USA

Although I attended the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University 1964-1968 and successfully completed all course requirements for BSFS International Business I did not fulfill the language fluency requirement and therefore do not have a degree. I do have 40 years of teaching over 15,000 new MBAs, managers and executives in Fortune 500 corporations. This experience includes designing courses and an entire curriculum for a Corporate University. My reference letters state I am a "master teacher, adept communicator and accomplished problem solver in every business management didcipline". I will obtain a CELTA certificate in next months. Will all this extensive teaching experience and CELTA offset the fact that I do not have a degree in my pursuit of an Oral English Teaching Career in China?

Lobster · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject:

It may in some areas where demand is high and supply low. In places like Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, the gov't requires a degree to issue a Foreign Expert's Cert with no exceptions. A letter of reference may help you land a position with the proper diploma, but it carries no weight with the education bureau. Asia is full of forged documents and questionable references. So, you can probably get a position in a more remote place, but you'll not be allowed to work in places that really make it worthwhile.

RED

alter ego · Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 209

The CELTA will give you the know how to use EFL communicative language techniques but as Red states the uni degree/diploma is generally required for the Z and RP.

MOD EDIT

With your experience I'm sure you can find teaching work in China, but getting around the no degree thing is a crap shoot until you decide where you want to teach and what kinds of jobs you want to apply for.

Sonnibarger · Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 320 Location: Wuhan

its all about the school.... im pretty sure my school could get a z visa for a flea infested dog from mexico it they so wished...

mike w · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:41 am Post subject:

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

OP, While your resume is impressive, Chinese law is said to requires a bachelor's degree for a foreign expert certificate. A foreign expert certificate is required for a residence permit (I was just again informed of this by a FAO).

There are ways around this. Most, if not all involve actions that most ethical non Asian types would consider fraud, falsification, subterfuge, corruption, etc.

The mistake in the Chinese law/policy is that it should have said "bachelor's degree or equivalent." Unfortunately, it does not.

It may still be possible for you to get the proper documents. It is almost certain that the method to make you legal will be illegal.

It's a bad idea to come here without the best credentials possible. Many of the "bosses" are abusive, even sadistic. They may hire you, but you will constantly be reminded that you are substandard. Your lack of a degree could marginalize you and be used to justify everything from bad housing to low pay to dismissal when somebody with a degree comes along.

Best scene is to get a bachelor's degree.

Sonnibarger · Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 320 Location: Wuhan

B.A or equivalent... what is equivalent? any thoughts? tesol, 2yr college, and 2 yrs exp? beautiful singing voice? blond hair? cut the rug like a mofo?

TexasHighway · Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 779

You didn't mention your age but from your background, I am assuming you are over 60. It is very difficult for a new teacher who is past 60 to get a Foreign Expert Certificate. Of course, as others have stated, there are always exceptions, but 60 is generally the cutoff for issung new FEC's. It looks like you already have two strikes against you as you attempt to embark on a new career as an oral English teacher in Chna.

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Sonni, One example of an equivalent would consist of four + years of college and two associate degrees, for example. Admission to a graduate program based on transcript analysis might also might be an indicator of bachelor's equivalency.

Another example might be a person with an associate's degree and two years of law school.

Some Canadian bachelor's degrees require three years of work. Some American associates degres require three years of work for most people. One might see an equivalency there.

Some people are admitted to medical school based on completion of pre med requirements and no bachelor's degree. They might be perceived as being BS equivalent after completing two or three years of med school.

While admittedly, it would be difficult for the authorities in China to analyze transcripts to determine bachelor's equivalency, there is such a thing, more or less.

It sounds to me that the OP has demonstrated it. A work history comparable to that of a bachelor's degree holder might also be a factor.

Something else to consider: some provinces extend FECs to those with associate's degrees and TEFL/TESOL certification when they are teaching in a high school like setting rather than a university.

Lobster · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject:

Ok, there you go. You can be a highschool dropout and get an FEC in Beijing. PM that poster and he'll hook ya up I'm sure. Consider my facts straightened.

RED

chinatwin88 · Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 379 Location: Peking

FECs can be based on experience or skill levels (in some professions) but as to teaching almost always there is a requirement of a degree. The exceptions to this educational rule can be found in certain applications to educational needs of the provence or of China in general.
The indication of a degree requirement can be superseeded by agencies, departments and levels of goverment that have more influence over the qualification and certification process.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Orrin · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 206 Location: Zhuhai, China

mike w · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:09 am Post subject:

Two of my colleagues are over 65, and one is over 70 - all had FEC's issued in Beijing, perfectly legally, for at least the last three years. (I'm a youngster at a mere 56, although I've been in China for almost 15 years).

sojourner · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject:

Orrin,

I'm a bit confused !

You mentioned that, even though you are aged 64 , you have been issued with your first FEC. Yet, in your thread re Z Visas ( http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=76396 ), you mentioned that you have been given the impression by the powers-that-be that once an FT has turned 60, such a person is no longer wanted in China ! So, would you please enlighten us as to why the authorities have decided to issue YOU with an FEC ? Does age discrimination with respect to FTs exist in Guangdong, or not ?

Peter