Job Discussion Forums

[bmoore]

Is there anybody that can explain the EF oranization without ranting and raving about how bad and horriable they are? (some of us are just tring to get our feet in the door)

I have some course work done but no degree yet and no teaching cert, although I do plan on getting the cert after I start work there (IF it ever happands) so it seems that EF is my only shot for working in Indoneisa. Am I right

I'm not sure of how the hiring process works, Is it someone at the school that hires you or is there HQ somewhere? any help would be great.

More important, I'm looking for any and all contact numbers / e-mails
for open jobs.

[father Mackenzie]

I think it is fair to say that there are those that have enjoyed working with EF in Indonesia and those that have not. This site does allow both sides to come forward and give views and opinions about EF both positive and negative.
EF Indonesia is a huge operation and has many schools all of which are franchised and so there are, sadly, different standards applied to all schools and teachers.
I work for one, historically more loathed EF group of schools and this group has taken a bashing in the past but I feel it has changed and continues to do for the better of the student and the teacher. I can say that as I am in the middle of renewing my contract for a further year with them.
If you want to look for work with EF then try

www.efjakarta.com/
www.englishfirst.co.id/

and follow the links on the website.

If you want to PM me for other details then please feel free.

[bmoore]

Thanks I'll be sure to check them out.

[Zorobabel]

EF is not so bad, and it would probably be perfect for someone in your position. If you want to get a job there, check out some of the ads here at Dave's or perhaps TEFL.com.

I know that EF Swara group, and probably other big franchises, has an HR Director who does the hiring to fill the various vacancies at their "schools" around Jakarta. If you want to work at a specific location, simply mention that in your cover letter and they will accommodate you if at all possible. On the other hand, for the smaller or individual-school franchises, it will be the school that hires you directly.

[bmoore]

Thanks, thats very helpful to know

Other people need to take notes from you on how to respond to questions.
thanks agian

[Oreally]

Humh��.. here is a direct response in the context of your post. EF in General, and EF Swara in particular, is not interested in the best teachers they can get, but the cheapest ( not to be confused with least expensive) . I know people they have hired with no teaching certificate, no Uni and hardly any high school. They just need a warm body to follow the book and entertain the students. There is little to no teacher development available. The remuneration is in accordance. If you really want the job and do not need to be hooked up to a ventilator, MOD EDIT, then the job is yours. But really, try and aim higher. If you are posting here, you have enough intellectual capability to do so.

[bmoore]

Point taken

[ljb]

Hi

I would like to add an up to date perspective on EF.

As someone who works for the Swara group I can say that there are plenty of opportunities for personal and professional development. Workshops are a regular part of the working month, needs analysis for training and development are linked into yearly plans that change with the needs of the teachers in mind. Workshops designed to meet the specific needs of the whole group are offered, work programmes and performance appraisals form part of the development structure and individual training needs are also met where feasible.

Training and development is an important part of any role and this is seen as a fundamental part of EF Swara, it is developing more and more over the years as any organisation does.

The transient nature of ESL has a huge impact on training and development and how an organisation goes about meeting these needs is of course dependent on the management and DoS but I personally feel that EF Swara is going a long way to try and meet the needs of its teachers.

EF also has access to training from its Head Office which is also used at EF Swara to ensure a holistic approach to training and development.

Maybe when you have interviews with EF schools ask the question about training and see what comes back, I am sure that no school wants you to fail.

Good luck

[Madame J]

I work for EF, and have had nothing but positive experiences with them during the five months I've been here.

Sure, they are a starter position and sure you can get better paying jobs elsewhere (don't know if there are any more opportunities for professional development elsewhere, this being my first teaching job), but I've found the attitude of my DoS to education very encouraging, and the other teachers to be very enthusiastic and resourceful. I think you do need a CELTA or equivalent to work here though, unless you have either an education related degree or substantial experience. I think the old stereotype that EF will take anyone is being slowly eroded, that may have been close to the truth in the past but I know my school in particular is really trying to weed out all the suspicious sounding applicants after a couple of past disasters.

Even if you don't need a cert to teach at all EFs, get one before you start anyway. I cringe to think of some of the mistakes I was making at the beginning of my CELTA, and I cringe even more if I imagine myself making them in an actual classroom.

The only thing I find a little discouraging here is the way classes are rushed through each topic, but I imagine that would be the same at most language mills.

PM me if you have any more questions.

[Ozindo]

My experience with EFL in Indonesia - and with EF - differs markedly from Oreally's.
Teacher development is available and most of the teachers I know are far from the " the cheapest" and certainly not even close to needing "to be hooked up to a ventilator"
I have learnt that high-standard qualifications do not necessarily mean good teachers, while some people with no formal qualifications can develop into very good teachers indeed.
Bmoore - whatever you decide to do, I wish you well. Take note of Father M, Zorobabel and ljb. Their advice is current and logical.
If you decide to join an EF, make sure you're given a copy of your contract in advance, are encouraged to make contact with existing teachers, and do some research about your destination. Then you can make a considered decision about your future and, hopefully, you'll make the most of any opportunity to break into the world of EFL.

[Oreally]

Ok. Good to know ( and a bit surprising) that there are so many people with positive things to say about Swara. There is no question that they have a bad reputation, which is deserved from it previous and (from what I have heard) current behavior. With the EFL market not being what it used to with more people getting better English domestically and the recession eroding luxuries, I cant see Swara being any more judicious in their hiring practices as cost have to come down. And I simply do not believe a word about these workshops. Are there any pictures from these workshops? What was the topic? Were certificates given? Are the teachers asked to pay for them? How has EF Swara improved as an employer? Are they still asking teachers to cover HR expensive that should be solved by the employer? Are they still getting the teachers to pay the domestic worker at the teacher house? Bmoore, There are a lot of EF Haters now, and there always will be. Aim for TBI, or even another EF group, but settle for EF Swara.

[malu]

There are two logical possibilities with Swara given the support they now seem to enjoy from a number of members of this forum. The first possibility is that they have got their house in order and have made substantive improvements in the way they treat their FTs. The second possibility is that the positive posts are fabricated by one or more native speakers in the Swara group as part of a disinformation initiative.

For now I'm keeping an open mind. I hope that the former case is true. Swara spent a long time accumulating a bad rep in the past so it will take a while for long-term Indonesia hands to be convinced.

[Ozindo]

I stand by what I wrote previously. If people do not want to accept, the choice is. theirs. But I really cannot see how accusing others of making up things that can easily be verified is helping the original poster. For that person, my offer still stands.

[father Mackenzie]

I really don't have the time or energy to make up stories for my employer. I am more than aware of SWARA's reputation and how people view it and have been treated in the past.
I am also able to freely discuss issues within the organisation with my managers if I feel that they affect me and my teachers which results in their time here being less enjoyable. I personally feel that I work hard in ensuring that I spend my time developing my teachers to become more effective and capable of doing the job that they are employed to do. This means that I do spend time training, reviewing and discussing how we can all improve and support the learning objectives of the customers that walk through the door.
After all that is what we are all paid to do.
I am accountable ultimately to the customers that I serve both external and internal and so I have a repsonsibility to ensure my teachers develop and my students are improving their language skills. I also take time to gain feedback from my teachers and students throughout the teaching year to find out how I can improve my support for them.
I cannot comment on what was as I was not there, however and I stand by this, those things that happened in the past, have no relation to what happens in my center. There will always be situations which arise which do not make every one happy and can be upsetting but that is no different to working in a western company.
I am sure that my center is not perfect and that there is lot more that I can learn to help improve my customers expectations and I will continue to seek out these suggestions and comments so I can continue to do just that.

[Oreally]

father Mackenzie, you are correct. Your employer has done a lot of bad things to a lot of people. They have always expected the allure of Indonesia and people just �moving on� to continue as they see fit. Swara�s past cast a long shadow that does affect you. This past keeps Swara a much discussed item.

Calling the children customers that need to be satisfied is accurate and fair, but very reflective of the position of the teacher in the organization. How many times has EF allows teachers to be changed, replaced or insulted to facilitate the fancies of a child or a clueless parent? You are continuing this policy? EF Swara have never been apologetic and have themselves only to blame for the legion of EF haters out there. Good luck trying to reform and rehabilitate EF Swara. With that said, if the KPK can defeat the police, then I think you have a shot at winning this one too.