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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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yeah sounds like canada too  |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
| Darwin is dead, our God is alive. |
However, Darwin had a logical, rational mind and was not given to murderous, emotional outbursts.
Please, "God", protect me from your followers. |
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ckhl
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 214
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| AS I predicted after reading the article (which I read a few weeks ago in the Economist), the usual threads of apologists come out of the woodwork. There's the inevitable...'but wait, it's like this in the West too', or, 'it's not so different in the West too'. Tedious indeed. |
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basiltherat
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| AS I predicted after reading the article (which I read a few weeks ago in the Economist), the usual threads of apologists come out of the woodwork. There's the inevitable...'but wait, it's like this in the West too', or, 'it's not so different in the West too'. Tedious indeed. |
I agree. I also get tired of explaining what I maintain is the main difference. Where poor education exists in the west, it is principally due, I believe, to political, structural and strategic incompetence, and mismanagement by politicians and decision makers in the field of education while in the other, it is due to a massive overdose of studying a single ideology at the expense of learning the more useful kinds of things i mentioned in my earlier posting.
Places like Japan and Finland have education systems that produce some of the most well-rounded individuals around. Principally because the way the system operates is efficient and effective with teachers who are top-notch, who care about what they do and who include social discipline into the process. No system is perfect, but these are the systems that work as well as any.
(Other) western countries could take a lesson from these particular systems.
One other aspect of education that is also lacking is 'domestic (home) education'.
If the UK's education system can be overhauled along the lines, perhaps, of one of the state systems above, perhaps in a couple of generations or three, we might achieve not only an institutionally well-educated society but also one that is domestically well-rounded.
Best
Basil
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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What about Avicenna?  He was ahead of his time.  |
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ckhl
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 214
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Places like Japan and Finland have education systems that produce some of the most well-rounded individuals around.
From what I've read, South Korea is high on the list too. As for mathematics and science, Canada and the Czech Republic, among others, hold their own quite well. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ckhl wrote: |
| AS I predicted after reading the article (which I read a few weeks ago in the Economist), the usual threads of apologists come out of the woodwork. There's the inevitable...'but wait, it's like this in the West too', or, 'it's not so different in the West too'. Tedious indeed. |
I don't think that comparing similarities (negative or positive) is being an apologist. I don't want to only slam the Arab system without looking in the mirror.
I think one of the major factors in play here is also family support and/or pressure to succeed. In Asia... and in Asian families in the West (and likely everywhere that they are), there is intense pressure on their children to not only succeed, but to excel... and large numbers of them do. The newness of education in the Gulf means that many students have very little family support or pressure. In some of my first classes in the late 80's, I didn't have one student with a literate mother, and only a handful with a literate father. Hopefully our students will provide both the pressure and support to both improve the schools and convince their children that they need an education... not just a grade to reward their presence. And parents whose first goal is that their children do their homework, not entertain the constantly visiting family members.
And I think the lowering of this family support system in places like the UK and the US is one of the reasons why the standard of our average graduates has fallen. Rather than pressuring the students to improve, the system has been dumbed down to their level.
VS
(I totally agree with Basil that government goals are also in play here... too often in a negative sense...) |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cassava wrote: |
| 007 wrote: |
| Darwin is dead, our God is alive. |
However, Darwin had a logical, rational mind and was not given to murderous, emotional outbursts.
Please, "God", protect me from your followers. |
Well, Darwin and his mind are both morally and scientifically wrong.
Did you know that Hitler also believed in Evolution, and used Darwinism in his war agenda to discriminate against other races and for mass murder.
| Quote: |
One other aspect of education that is also lacking is 'domestic (home) education'.
If the UK's education system can be overhauled along the lines, perhaps, of one of the state systems above, perhaps in a couple of generations or three, we might achieve not only an institutionally well-educated society but also one that is domestically well-rounded. |
Well, the UK's education system should first solve the problem of low level mathematics and science in their schools and universities, then think about 'domestic education'. In addition, UK has the highest anti-social behaviour problems in Europe, and this is another side of problem in which UK should solve if they want to keep 'morality' alive!
Last edited by 007 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ckhl
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 214
Location: SE Asia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully our students will provide both the pressure and support to both improve the schools and convince their children that they need an education... not just a grade to reward their presence. And parents whose first goal is that their children do their homework, not entertain the constantly visiting family members.
What you are asserting is generally true. As increasing numbers of Emirati women become educated and have fewer children, their children will doubltess have a different attitude towards education.
However, the thrust of the article focussed on the more general problem of the insistence of religious doctrine that prevails in the Arab world at the expense of intellectual rigor and inquiry . Yes...alas, you will find instances of this in the USA but you'll equally find a strong resistance to it as well. Shamefully few Americans believe in Darwinism, but fights to uphold it in the biology curriculum have generally been successful. Generally speaking, those who reject such truths are among those who, a hundred years ago, would not have made it beyond the 8th grade if they were lucky. The only difference now is that they get included in the statistics because they remain in school for longer.
Last edited by ckhl on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total | | |
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