Job Discussion Forums

[jason_seeburn]

Sure, Brian. You go by your experience and what other foreigners say. That's why they keep getting arrested and deported. I don't see chinese immigrants having the same problems. I have friends (chinese) who go over for the summer to Taiwan or Hong Kong, and have no trouble at all. They are Canadians. Not Taiwanese. Re: 7-11 thing: I could not tell you what any clerk in Korea, Taiwan, Germany, Greece, Sweden, France, or any other place where I've lived says when I enter the store. I can't remember what the clerk at the grocery store said to me last week. Your fixation on things like this makes me believe that you are missing the point when you look at things over there. I used to have long conversations with gas station attendants about my motorbike (they thought it was quite nice). I remember them quite well. But convenience store clerks? Who knows if I even ever was in a 7-11 (though I remember I used to pay the utility bills for my appartment in the 7-11 down the street so I guess I must have gone to them. I also believe I might have bought "IF" telephone cards there sometimes, though that might have been in a "high life" store).

[brian]

Jason the reason that I bought the 7-11 thing up again is quite simple. In one of your much earlier posts, when you were attempting to defend the fact that you had been here for only nine months but knew more than even those of us that have been here for many years, you stated that the reason for this was that you walked around with your eyes open. You questioned things. You got involved with what was going on around you. You claimed that this was how you attained such a superior knowledge than all of us in such a short period of time, even though others such as myself have been in Taiwan for around 10 years now. You claimed that it wasn�t the length of time that one spent in Taiwan but the quality and intensity of the experience that they had.

Let�s assume that you didn�t enter a 7-11 during your short time here. You do however concede that you entered a gas station many times, and that you recall these visits distinctly. Well, guess what, gas station attendants call out the exact same phrases when you drive in and out of these places, as the clerks in 7-11, Hi-Life, Family Mart and all the other places do. Why don�t you just concede that you were wrong on this?

The reason is because to do so would undermine any credibility that you feel that you have on this board. Your credibility is flimsily based upon your �attention to what was going on around you� and your �involvement� in the process of setting up the school that you worked for. To accept that you don�t even understand the Chinese phrases that clerks call out when you enter and exit a store, would expose the fact that you don�t understand Chinese and were basically walking around with blinders on during your nine month stay here. If you don�t understand Chinese and were walking around with blinders on, then how on earth do you feel that you have a good grounding for coming to this board and suggesting the things that you suggest.

Of course it is not in the slightest bit important what the clerks said. It is important that you:
a. Didn�t notice that they were saying anything
b. Didn�t understand what they were saying
c. Are not big enough to admit either a or b

As far as taking the advice of locals, well good for you. I am sure that some locals know the regulations regarding foreigners living and working in Taiwan very well, but I am equally sure that the majority don�t. Foreigners are involved in the process and most of us actually ask questions rather than just accepting what we are told as being fact. We are willing to challenge authority when we have a suspicion that something is not right. This doesn�t always make us popular here, but in many cases it arms us with knowledge for the next time.

As to your claim that this is why we foreigners keep getting arrested and deported, well I haven�t been and I don�t know any of my friends here who have. Most of the foreigners that do get into trouble are newbies within their first year, that have placed their faith in what the school (read Chinese management) have told them. Now, I do not believe that schools are out to get people, but I do believe that far too many schools have incompetent management. Incompetence from people who should know better is unacceptable, particularly when the effects are felt by the foreign staff. When you consider that these managers will present their �opinion� or �interpretation� as being fact, is very disconcerting. At least when foreigners dispense advice on boards such as this one, or in the local pub, the listener can accept what they say with a grain of salt. If they are wrong in what they say then other investigations will no doubt show this. Blindly accepting what a Chinese person tells you as being fact, is just downright dangerous, and quite irresponsible for you to suggest.

Let advice stand, no matter what the source is. Challenge the advice. Question the advice. Ask different sources for their take on it. And in the end you will in most cases be pretty close to the truth.

Finally, on the question of legislation, why do you assume that foreigners are all looking at the English translations of these documents. Just because Chinese is unintelligible to you doesn�t mean that other foreigners can�t read it. Of course I am not suggesting that all newbies should be able to read Chinese documents before they can safely come to Taiwan, but what I am suggesting is that the reading and interpretation of Chinese documents is no longer restricted to the domain of Chinese people. It is just possible that the foreigners dispensing advice on this and other boards have read and understood the Chinese versions, and are in fact using the original source as the basis for their comments. By your very own assertions, you cannot read Chinese. This means that you have relied entirely upon the interpretation of others for all of your experiences here. No wonder you get it wrong so often. Everything you know is third hand.

[jason_seeburn]

[Aristotle]

Nearly every aspect of doing any kind of business or working in Taiwan is in violation of some law, regulation or decree. That is the nature of Chinese government. Everything is illegal so everyone has pay a bribe to a government official to do anything unharassed. That's a fact of life in Taiwan, not just for foreigners but even for those self appointed spokes persons of the Government of the Republic of China. The motivation of such people who advocate this kind of corrupt system is also blatantly apparent.
The end result is a society where laws are ignored simply because the only time they are enforced is to facilitate extortion by government officials and their cronies. Right and wrong, good and bad, better or worse simply don't fit into the equation.
This particular problem for foreign teachers will simply disappear in a few more weeks.
SSETT has not received any additional reports for the last two weeks so it may have already blown over. I will wait a few more weeks then make a recommendation to lift the Work Advisory Warning.
Good luck
A.

[brian]

I won't bother to comment on the majority of your post as it is just the usual drivel. You just change the name of the person you are sending it to - be it Taoyuan Steve, Okami or myself - and click the post button.

This strikes me as somewhat unusal though:

[jason_seeburn]