Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

I've been in Peru for five years and have worked at three schools and two unis, I'm ashamed to say that i've never negotiated, and I'm always telling teachers to negotiate. I never did , becuase I was basically presented with a take it or leave it choice. I still should have negotiated, especially since, being married to a Peruvian, I'm on the bottom of the pay scale for foreign teachers, those hired abroad get more, even if they have less experience and qualifications.

NOw that I work on my own, I negotiate, and find that people DO pay a higher price. After all, you get what you pay for.

Anyways, I've been talking to others who have successfully gotten up to 20% higher than offered. The moral of the story: negotiate. WHether its for money or benefits, the only way salaries are going to rise is if skilled people demand higher salaries.

If you hAVE negotiated, what extra benefits or salary did you get?
I upped my rates from 10 to 15 usd last March and my students didn't even bat an eye.

[Justin Trullinger]

How about a sometimes option? If I were teaching privately, I don't think I would negotiate- I would set my price at something fair within the market, and then they could take it or leave it.

On behalf of the organisation I work for, I'm forever negotiating with clients- usually corporate or governmental. I understand that under these conditions, the people I'm talking to, usually in HR, have to look for the best proposal they can, and that includes some give and take.

Frankly, I'm less inclined to negotiate with individual student clients. They often try, but it's usually not what I call "negotiation," more like "trying it on." Our hourly rates, $15 to $20 USD, are pretty reasonable in the local market. But a common "technique" is that a new student asks me "how about $5?" When I laugh, they then say- "okay, ni por Ud ni por mi. $10?" This isn't give and take, it's just take. And it implies that my original price was exaggerated, which it sure isn't.

In this case, I direct them to the marketplace, where bargaining is normal.

BEst,
Justin

[Chris_Crossley]

I have never so far negotiated any salary with any of the three schools which have been my full-time employers in China over the past eight years.

Having said that, though, I am now in my fifth consecutive full-time year at my current employer and I am within weeks of becoming a father for the second time, facts which the management of my school is well and truly aware.

When it comes to negotiation, I think I will give it a try for my next full-time contract, which will be my sixth. There has already been talk - but just that, talk - of giving the foreign teachers fixed basic salaries in RMB instead of USD given the weakness of the latter over the past four-plus years that has resulted in my mostly receiving less money from month to month since I started my first full-time contract in August '05. (I have, in any case, always received extra allowances in fixed amounts of RMB.)

To me, it is absurd that I should be receiving more or less the same or even less than that compared to when I first started my first full-time contract four years ago simply because of the disadvantageous exchange rate between the USD and the RMB, but if the management thinks it can take advantage of the weakening USD, then it, unfortunately, will.

However, as far as I am concerned, those people should appreciate the fact that, by next summer, I will have worked for them for five years, so I should be able to negotiate something better than the standard "single status" contract for the "here today, gone tomorrow" foreign teacher, the kind of person for which the contract was undoubtedly designed in the first place.

[Sashadroogie]

Like Justin, I don't enter into any dialogue about lesson fees for my own private students. Most of them are short-term IELTS prep students who are desperate for tuition, so they usually accept my fee anyway. The odd one who doesn't simply gets re-directed to the various schools who provide this training also. When they learn what a school will bleed from them for indiviual lessons with a young and inexperienced teacher, they usually come back to me, tail between legs. Even if not, there is, it seems, an inexhaustible supply of other more amenable students.

[denise]

No. If the salary is not enough, I don't take the job. The pay scale at my current uni is a bit odd--they started me at a fairly high rate and I can't quite figure out why, given that EVERYONE has an MA (well, 99% of the teachers), and since most people are older than me, they have quite a bit more experience. But I'm not complaining!

d

[basiltherat]

IMHO, salaries can be negotiated only after you have proven what you're worth to the company. Have you a proven track record of good performance ? Have you gone the extra mile for your employer ? And so on. All this, say, over a period of a year working there. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the employer.

As regards a starting salary; IMHO, it's either take the offer or leave it.

IMO, companies who advertise 'negotiable salary' are not even worth considering.

Best
Basil

[denise]

[Chris_Crossley]

I doubt very much if any Chinese employers would be happy to negotiate one's next year's (or contract's, however short it is) salary if one has worked for them for only one year.

Why should they? Anyone who even looks as if they are going to make unreasonable and unrealistic demands after such a relatively short time is going to be convinced that the employee has such a big ego that it needs to move elsewhere sharpish. The end result may be a non-renewal of the contract - after all, there is no shortage of FTs in China and employers can always employ somebody else.

They don't need you no matter who you are, what you think of yourself and/or what you say other people, even students, think of you, so don't push it if you're thinking of "negotiating" the next salary, not even if, like me, your next contract will be your sixth consecutive annual one with the same employer.

Their mentality is: We can always hire some other idiot desperately knocking on our door and virtually begging for work! In other words, from their perspective, it is a question of "You need us, we don't need you..."

Think about it logically after you've been here a while. The way they do things here is different from what they do back home.

Always remember: All expats are expendable in China.

[basiltherat]

[Chris_Crossley]

[LoPresto]

Words of Wisdom - "Always remember: All expats are expendable in China."

[nickpellatt]

I havent ever negotiated, and I have worked for 4 different schools/organisations now. Like someone else said, If I thought the salary was too low, I wouldnt apply or accept a position. This isnt an approach I would take only to EFL/ESL by the way .. I have always been the same in the 20 years I worked prior to EFL/ESL.

If I do negotiate ... it probably wouldnt be for salary. I would push for other things related to the job ... a better timetable with less splits/more days off, a different year group, an improved housing situation.

My basis for these negotiations would be as suggested here by Basil ... by pointing out my strengths and good points (proved after a period of time hopefully!) and using those as a point for why 'Im worth it!'

[Deicide]

[Justin Trullinger]

Hey D, aren't you obsessing a bit?

I'd add to the negotiating conversation- I'm in the job market now for next year. I haven't yet negotiated salary with anyone.

It might come to that, but in general, I like to work for organisations where salary and scale are public and universal. Makes life easier.


Best,
Justin

[Deicide]