Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

Once again, nothing to do with English Language Teaching... I'm promising record levels of incoherency here, as I've had a couple of beers and this is a tricky subject:

When did time start?
Where does the universe end?

Naturally, these questions are impossible to answer. We have some very funky theories about The Big Bang, multiple universes (etc...) but none really answer the above questions. In fact, I suppose by their very nature these questions contradict themselves and are impossible to answer.

Time can't start, becaus this very thing happening would imply that something existed before the time that it started. Similarly, the universe can't end - if it is expanding then what is it expanding into? Where is the boundary of the universe? Infinity doesn't sit well with me, it's not something that I can really get a hold of...

My conclusion?

We humans have figured out nice ways to explain and quantify the world (and, more recenty, universe) in ways that have suited us. But the "scientific equation" so to speak is simply incorrect. The simple fact that we have these impossible questions signifies that somehow our interpretation of time and space is simply wrong. Our "view of the universe" doesn't add up...How can there be this linear progression of time that we observe if it has no start and no end? How can you travel distance yet never reach "the end" of the universe? As unsettling as it might sound, our basic concepts of "time" and "space" (or "space-time", maybe) are fundamentally flawed.

This isn't to say that it isn't useful having watches and cars! They work for us pretty well here on planet Earth. But when we're looking at the "grand scheme of things", then evidently different rules apply.

Does anyone (perchance) have any understanding in philosophy and/or astrophysics that can help put my mind at rest? As weird as it sounds, this has been bothering me for a couple of days now...

[johnslat]

Dear leeroy,
If you think anyone is going to be able to put your mind at rest as regards those questions, well then, you're more of an optimist than I.
However, here are some decent web sites that might help:

http://everythingforever.com/f_cont.htm

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/What%20is%20infinity.htm

http://www.parcellular.fsnet.co.uk/contents.htm.htm

Finite and unbounded? Infinite but bounded? And heck, don't even mention "Superstring Theory":

http://superstringtheory.com

http://www.lassp.cornell.edu/GraduateAdmissions/greene/greene.html

Anyway, if you ever get it all figured out, please drop me a line.

Regards,
John

[Glenski]

leeroy,
I know this is a general discussion forum, but it is still a JOB discussion forum. Geez.

[johnslat]

Dear Glenski.
Well, let's give me the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe he's going to be teaching ESP to quantum physicists.
Regards,
John

[FGT]

I thought the label at the top of the page said "GENERAL DISCUSSION", this seems to fit the bill. We can't all talk about jobs all the time. Since when were people's dating habits, ages, intelligence etc; Bushisms, wonders of the world etc etc to do with jobs? If one goes, they all go. Personally I vote to keep this as a place for general discussion. Jobs can be included too.

[Capergirl]

Don't drink and post.

[khmerhit]

Leeroy, are you at the Dove near Hammersmith Bridge?
That's a good spot for posting from your laptop and, er, having a quick drink.
khmerhit

[Lanza-Armonia]

@Caper - Drinking a posts esta muy bien. It's fun! And just openening one's PM box after said pi$$-up is great. "Did I really post that" normally comes to one's mind.

I was told once by a Psyche Doctor that the human mind is unable to contemplate indefinate space, but with if you look at what simple minded people have found out about this world over the past two centuries, then it's fair to say that someone may stumble across the answer. What do you think Pythagoras did? Also, (according to many published works and journals), time is apparently something we homosepians condured together as to help us compromise from the lack of understand of the ultimate "space" question. Everything goes on....tick tock. But if every clock and watch and whatnot was destroyed, will there still be time? If a tree fell in a forest and no one was around to hear it, will it still make a sound? Same logical and transversal answer applies to both.

At the end of the day, what does it matter? We're born, with go to school, we lose our virginity to the worst possible person, get a job, get promoted, midlife crisis, divorce, change careers, grow old and DIE! This system is flawless, just try to enjoy it!

[johnslat]

Dear leeroy,
One more suggeston:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140276661/026-4360827-8204432

Richard Feynman is a legend as a physicist but also as a teacher. If you can, get the books together with the tapes (or CDs) of his lectures (available from Addison Wesley). They are astounding.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738209244/102-2508474-7545762

Regards,
John

[yaramaz]

khmer, I used to work at the Dove in Hammermith... they had fab Thai food at that time because the evil sleazy owner was married to a charming Thai woman. I'd love to go for a pint or three out on their deck on the river, esp at high tide when the river was only a foot below the top of the deck's walls.... mmmmmm metaphysicalicious!

Did you know that Rule Britannia was written upstairs there? He must have been drinking as much as yer man Leeroy.

[waxwing]

Johnslat, kudos for mentioning Feynman I agree with your assessment of his 'lectures' .. he's one of the most interesting figures in 20th century culture, much neglected methinks. His QED is just too beautiful.
Did you study physics? I studied maths and theoretical physics at Uni, then did a masters in nuclear stuff. Prefer this type of work though

If anyone wants to really blow their mind, they should read about Frank J Tipler's theories of the end of the Universe.
In short, he thinks that he has proved by means of mathematical equations that:
a. Consciousness will eventually propagate through the entire Universe in the form of artificial intelligence.
b. 'God' is just a shorthand for the end of the Universe, in which density of matter and information diverges asymptotically to infinity, whilst a race of super-beings develops a computer which can simulate the entire Universe perfectly in virtual reality.


This guy is a real physics professor, I s**t you not.
Look up 'Tipler' and 'the Physics of Immortality' on google.

[Atlas]

http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/

[gugelhupf]

I highly recommend a four part trilogy written by the late Douglas Adams called The Hitchikers' Guide to the Galaxy.

This should make things clearer for you.

[Mark-O]

I agree that this is a very interesting subject. So much so that I did a degree in Astrophysics.

I also agree with the view about Richard Feynmann. That guy has contributed far more to physics in the past century than the likes of Hawking, who basically has only really contributed to the field of Black Hole Mechanics if the truth be known. Sadly though, I thought Feynmann is now the 'late' Richard Feynmann(?)

The expansion of the universe and its nature of being 'infinite but bounded' can be difficult to fathom. The best analogy I've ever heard of this is that of an inflating balloon. If you can imagine that the Universe is modelled by the surface of an inflating balloon. Clearly, the surface has no centre point, no epicentre from which to expand from. Subsequently, the entire surface of the balloon expands homogeneously as the balloon inflates. If we imagine that this balloon has an infinite capacity to inflate then this analogy can be used for our Universe. The surface of an infinite balloon is infinite, with no centre, but ultimately, the surface is also BOUNDED.

The universe can have no boundaries otherwise we would not be here to observe it. If the universe had a boundary i.e. a point at which we reach the edge then the universe would collapse from the inward forces acting at these 'edges'. The universe would literally collapse under its own gravity.

Of course, the balloon analogy can only be taken so far. As Leeroy mentioned, the balloon must be expanding into something. In the case of the Universe then why must it expand into anything at all? If the Universe is all that there is then (hence, 'Uni' as in only one) this counterargument fails validation.

The subject of time is also perplexing. The 'Arrow of Time' can be determined in several ways i.e. by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics which dictates that entropy (=disorder) must increase with time. Thence, the arrow of time is dictated by disorder increasing is one interpretation. There are several other definitions that I can't remember i.e. that of atomic decay?. but time is very much an area of heavy philosophical debate. I hear that 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins is very good on this subject.

[guest of Japan]

Mark O you are much too smart.

My brief response is only to recommend Stephen Hawkings book, "A Brief History of Time." It tries to answer the very questions you ask Leeroy. I don't recommend drinking too heavily when reading it.