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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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 Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Griff-James wrote: |
| I suspect the quality of education will decline sharply if non-native speakers are used. |
Well, quality of education has nothing to do with native vs non-native speakers, gender, skin colour, eyes colour, or ethnicity, etc.
There are a lot of native English speakers with blonde hair, blue/green eyes, but with horrific teaching skills. And vice versa!
| Quote: |
| Luckily, I am changing career. |
I hope it is not Mathematics!  |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I've had several native speaker colleagues who were shocking bad teachers, extremely insensitive to local conditions and whose emails were sprinkled with an embarrassing number of basic errors.
I've had non-native speaker colleagues who spoke impeccable English and were professional and respectful in their dealings with colleagues and students.
All things being equal (but they never really are), I suppose I would prefer to hire a native speaker over a non-native speaker. This has as much to do with PR as anything else: Let's face it, the level of English we teach in Saudi Arabia is rarely so nuanced that it can't be taught by a competent non-native speaker.
I don't think the problem is the influx of non-native speakers as such, but rather the fact that the low pay and conditions on offer in some places will not attract the better qualified, more experienced teachers, native speaker or not. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cleopatra,
I do believe you've summed it all up most excellently.
Thaaaat's all, folks. 
Regards,
John
Last edited by johnslat on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Griff-James
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: A place full of 18 year olds and endless ale. Not not this time.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| I don't think the problem is the influx of non-native speakers as such, but rather the fact that the low pay and conditions on offer in some places will not attract the better qualified, more experienced teachers, native speaker or not. |
I made that point earlier.
I suspect all institutions will be affected by the low pay and conditions.
It is the students, education and economy that will suffer.
When the need for oil reduces, and it will .... |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| When the need for oil reduces, and it will .... |
Yeah it will, but not any time soon. Probably not in any of our lifetimes.Not with the 2 billion + population of China and India rapidly increasing their demand for oil.
Anyway, let's keep things in proportion. The fact that a few fly-by-night recruiters are hiring sub-standard EFL teachers is not going to have any huge effect on the Saudi economy. Or on anything else, come to think of it. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When the need for oil reduces, and it will .... |
Yeah it will, but not any time soon. Probably not in any of our lifetimes.Not with the 2 billion + population of China and India rapidly increasing their demand for oil.
Anyway, let's keep things in proportion. The fact that a few fly-by-night recruiters are hiring sub-standard EFL teachers is not going to have any huge effect on the Saudi economy. Or on anything else, come to think of it. |
But do you think Saudi will depeg from the green back within our lifetimes?
Last edited by Deicide on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Deicide,
Probably not in yours - since unless your circumstances improve dramatically, you plan to off yourself in only eight more years (and I hope you discard THAT notion.)
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
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But do you think Saudi will depeg from the green back within our lifetimes?
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If I could answer that question, I'd be making a fortune in the financial sector!
Seriously, your guess is as good as mine. The decision to depeg woudl have major political significance, so it's unlikely it would be taken too lightly. That said, you could pick up the paper tomorrow and read that about a new currency regime. It really is hard for outsiders to predict these things. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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The decline can be illustrated by this.
In the 1970's when I was in my first job in the KSA I used the Cadogan Hotel when in London. Now I am more downmarket. Not by choice ! Harsh economic necessity ! |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
The decline can be illustrated by this.
In the 1970's when I was in my first job in the KSA I used the Cadogan Hotel when in London. Now I am more downmarket. Not by choice ! Harsh economic necessity ! |
Well, Uncle Scott, the 1970 period was the period of flared trousers, platform shoes, Ford Cortina, power cuts, and Queen's Silver Jubilee celebration!
And it was a harsh economy as well, because not everybody owned a washing machine at that time, and the hotels were empty because the economy was not in good shape, and there were power cuts most of the time!!
Now, hotels are very expensive in London, and one option to save in your accommodation in London, Uncle Scott, is to take your tent with you and set it up in middle of Hyde Park like the Romanians and Bulgarians! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have found a Gentlemen's Club that accepted me as a member. I tried The Drones Club. They turned me down on the grounds that I work for a living. I pointed out that it was not a real job - just a spot of TEFLing. They did not accept so I had to settle for a more modest establishment.
The Club offers accommodation to members. One step up from a park bench or a tent. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dear scot47,
"I have found a Gentlemen's Club that accepted me as a member."
My congratulations on having bamboozled that club into thinking that you
actually qualified.
But your being turned down by the Drones Club is inexplicable. I mean, how could anyone possible think that TEFLing constitutes a real job in any way, shape or form?
I would appeal such a wrongheaded blackballing.
Regards,
John |
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