Job Discussion Forums

[Chris_Crossley]

[A man called Roger]

[elliot_spencer]

Hey sorry for the delay! I used to live in Taiwan and fell in love with china about two years ago when I was on a visit from Taiwan. I did hope to move to China but I took a job in Europe (Italy). However, life here is Europe is not for me... I dont like the way of life as everything costs too much. I want to come to china and relocate.... I have been offered jobs in Hangzhou at 6000Y and Beijing at 10000Y- I always thought China was cheap and that the salaries quoted are enough to have a good life... eat out, but things and not have to budget too much (like I do here).

If not I guess I could go back to taiwan but not Taipei as it's far too western and I hated the rain!!

Thanks

[Hansen]

I manage on my salary, which is not very high. Recently, an Indian restaurant, with delicious food, opened. Two people can eat there for ~100RMB. That is quite expensive by my standards. I can easily get a decent meal for less than 10RMB. With a friend, a Chinese meal rarely gets close to 100RMB. Part of the reason is that food is significantly cheaper without meat, which I don't eat.

After the first couple of weeks, my curry lust was sated. Now I'm back to my regular routine. I'll have Indian food once in a while but I won't be spending a few hundred a week there. I also found a nice sushi place. Again, without the fish, vegetable sushi is affordable. I can get stuffed there for about 30RMB

If you require expensive women, restaurants, clothes, and so forth, life anywhere is going to cost you. In China, you can be poor and not need to carry a gun to protect yourself from your poor, marauding neighbors.

China is not a bad place to be poor. In the States, poverty often means ghetto and the low lifes associated with it. Not so in China.

[A man called Roger]

[Hansen]

Mr. Man, My personal affairs have no impact on the difference between the social situations here and in America.

Usually, poverty in America is associated with drugs, criminal activity, violence, and disrespect. In China that is not the case. While it is almost certain that the rich in China disrespect, even despise, the poor, the poor do not disrespect and despise one another, as is often the case in the States.

My personal situation does not alter the objective reality of the difference between poverty in China and America.

[Zero]

No matter what figure you mention, people will always disagree. In the United States, if you start talking money, some will say you can live on $35,000 a year. Others would immediately jump in to say: "Not if you have a car payment! And a mortgage! Especially on the coasts! You can go broke making $100,000 a year, especially if you have a family. And how would you buy Gucci and decent wines on $35,000?"

And they are, of course, both right. And, of course, if you are the kind of person who eats 100 yuan hamburgers, then 6,000 yuan a month won't do the trick.

I think that 6,000 with housing is pretty close to a standard university package. Most places it's probably 4,500 or 5,000, but Hangzhou is more expensive. You can, of course, easily live on that amount if you are only supporting yourself, do not have high debts, and do not have a taste for luxury items or expatriate bars. You can save a good percentage of it.

But therein lies the rub. Even saving a high percentage of it, you aren't saving large amounts if you think about it in western currency. Most people do eventually have to go home. China isn't really set up for you to stay long-term -- as in, until death. You can't easily get a green card, you can't participate in pension and insurance schemes, you can't work at regular, local jobs but instead depend on employers who can sponsor work visas. You exist from contract to contract. (Some people manage to stay long-term anyway, of course.)

And if you are going back home eventually, you will need start-up funds, you will need retirement funding, you will need western-size tuition for any kids you have. Even if you stay in China, your kids, if they have foreign citizenship, will pay higher school fees. So when people note that your salary is higher than those of locals, remember two things:
-it may not be true, because Chinese often have bonuses, perks and other nifty little tricks that make their true income way higher than they tell you, and;
-you can never live like a local, even if you want to; China doesn't let you.

All that said, 6k sounds reasonable enough for a university job in Hangzhou. If you really need more money, you can use your free time to teach private lessons or do other work.

[A man called Roger]

[Hansen]

How do I know about the poor in China?

I've spent several years in what many consider to be one of the poorest and most "backward" provinces in China. The school which employs me specializes in offering education to the children of the poor who live in the outlying areas of the province. Many are the children of watermelon, peanut, garlic, or corn farmers who scratch out a living on a couple of mu of land. Every year, I have several young people from a poor area which became internationally known due to a devastating corollary of its poverty.

While I don't consider a life in clean air, peace and quiet, and starry nights poverty, many people here do.

The students here do not routinely beat up other kids after school, knife them, perhaps shoot them, or steal their shoes, sweatshirts, and so forth.
Gangs are nonexistent.

Our students distinguish themselves in the way they care for each other, sleep together, several in a small room with little complaint, and spend numerous hours together daily, with virtually no conflict.

Like most people here, I offer my opinion based on what I have observed over several years. I'm not defending a dissertation. My employer does however, provide aid, in the form of educational opportunities, to young people from "poor" country farms.

[A'Moo]

[A man called Roger]

[Zero]

Yeah, but, I have to agree with Hansen on this -- the level of crime and danger in an American ghetto seems higher than what you find in China. It is a matter of degree.

[A man called Roger]

[Zero]

And another thing about 6,000 yuan, or 4.500 or whatever the amount. It's higher than the $0 per month a lot of Americans are making because they have been laid off and their unemployment benefits are running out and there aren't any jobs to be had. The free apartment could start to look pretty good to a lot of people, too.
The tools of basic sustenance are hardly a given anymore in the USA.

[Pelican_Wrath]