Job Discussion Forums

[CThomas]

I at first almost posted this in the WP/visa thread, but I think it's different enough to warrant a new thread...

Brainstorming here....

I don't know about this idea that WPs require special connections or money. If you have a BA or 5 year's experience, you can get a WP if you and your employer present a complete dossier and pay the fees. The government has clamped down on visa enforcement but I'm not convinced they've made it more difficult to get a WP.

The issue seems to be with the schools.

One thing not really mentioned amidst all these discussion is that you can start a company in Vietnam and get a 3-yr renewable visa.

So, what about starting a school? There are people with $, experience, and qualifications enough even in this forum to do so. From what I understand, it would take about $25k to do it right. $8k for incorporation, registration, and legal and the rest for facilities, insurance, etc.

Teachers could even be investors. This co-owner model would seem to attract the most motivated, committed, teachers.

Benefits -- Doing so affords transparency and no more complaining about "management", no more WP and visa issues that seem so mysterious. Long-term residence. Money. Control. Etc. That puts the principals (owners, teachers, teacher-owners) in a new bracket of responsibility, power, access, and possibilities.

Big obstacle... I understand that it's difficult to start a business in Vietnam, and perhaps even more difficult to start a school-business. But it's not impossible, as evidenced by the fact there are schools and new schools are popping up still.

This would require a. dedicated people who are actually good at what they do, and b. livelihood for all involved during the 6-month start-up period, not connected to business income.

Again, just brainstorming... with all the complaints and concerns it would seem worthwhile to take a different perspective and examine possibilities from it.

[mark_in_saigon]

I think it is a real approach. Perhaps about 5 partners, or however many you would need to spread the financial risk. However, one big problem I see is personalities. Judging from the constant need of the moderators to remove confrontational posts here, it looks to me like finding 5 people who would not clash from this line of work (that is, the special personality that wants to teach in Asia), would be quite problematic. You have to find people who have the money to swing it, not just the skills to teach. I am sure you have read about the various kinds of skills required to start and then manage a business from its early stages to its later stages. I forget the progression exactly, but early on you need the inventor type, the guy with the idea, later you need different types. Note how big businesses often have accounting types in charge after they are successful. Point is, teaching types may not really be your best bet for actually being a success, especially after the thing is past its first stage. I think MY approach, if I were sharing my funds, would be to use it as a vehicle for a particular niche of people, people who wanted to assure themselves of a hassle free job, people who were more serious about their work than they were about their partying, and finally, who did not actually need the money (income). Riding out a new business can take some time, and people who expect overnight riches are often disappointed.

[jb0072009]

I was going to start a school in Nha Trang. I went to a Viet lawyer who did the research for me. Basically it is a lot of work, money and hassle to do so especially if you are a foreigner. The amount of paperwork was enormous and the souveniers (bribes) to officials very steep. For Viets it is not nearly as bad although it takes even them a long time to get it done. Now you can always go the illegal route most Viets folow, that is just rent a house or apt or store and setup shop. Hire your teachers, no work permits, no taxes pay cash. Of course that would defeat your purpose of forming a corporation for visa purposes. A better idea is to go to a viet attorney, pay him to form a corporation that does basically nothing. You will have to file taxes etc but you can get your 3 year visa. The government is cracking down on this though and if you do not show some business activity they will remove your corporation along with your visa. Another way is to marry a viet and get a permenant residence permit. That way you do not need a visa at all,just renew your permit once every 3 years (that is what I did).

[Green Acres]

It can be done, as you say CThomas, but few have ventured there with success. One can see many Vietnamese start-ups and poor schools that never seem to close despite their inadequacies, but where are the foreign owned ones? I have a friend who did this in D.4, but I don't know if it was done with a Vietnamese spouse and some protection from family. One of the first ones in vietnam, name associated with a greek moon god, was created by foreigners and no Vietnamese connection. They did very well and are still around, however, I think this was a one-off. At the time (1992), there were no other businesses like this one, and consequently, much government activity helped reinforce its existance. I think the rest either had Vietnamese partners or sufficient backing from universities and government channels.

I wouldn't buy stock in such a company unless many conditions were met, and then it would be a gamble since many of the bigger players would not appreciate that a new enterprise was basically taking from their classrooms. This would be particularly true if you had a board of trustees made up of veterans to the area and other influential investors.

All in all, though, I like gambles, as they do pay off. Contact me if the idea ever gets past the first 30,000$.

[CThomas]

More brainstorming, based on reading responses....

If you don't want/need to make a lot of money, but just want to do your own thing...

As far as showing a profit, what about a single person (an individual, not a non-married person necessarily, ha ha) creating a teaching company? To meet requirements, a company must employ something like 30% Vietnamese. So, a teacher/owner and an administrator/recruiter, then outsource the accounting to a reputable firm who can deal well with the gov't agencies. Teach 16 or so people in a decent room downstairs from an apartment (like an old store below an apartment), keep costs minimal, and show a very small, steady profit.


Or what about starting a school as a non-profit? That doesn't mean "no income" -- it means reasonable salaries are paid but there's no accrual of capital. Does this even exist as an official entity in Vietnam and would running one even enable a visa or wp exemption? I ask this latter question because the rules state a person must be a principal (principle?) of a LLC, which is a for-profit entity.