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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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 Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Back on topic:
Negotiation.
I found that the more I negotiated, the more they resisted. Clearly the western biz model of hard negotiation up front did not work in my situation. So I stopped and accepted what came.
They spontaneously gave me a 10% raise. Just because.
5 room house. New furniture and bedding. Senior 2's, not middle school kids - good for career advancement.
I could go on. They like me, it is a great setup, and I have tonnes of spare cash. Time to read my DELTA booklist, learn Mandarin, explore. Life is good.
Sometimes it pays to let go. Sometimes. Surely others will counter with their hard scrap session that netted big RMB gains. |
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seagull
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. I also had an offer from David Hawk International English in Guangzhou, and would prefer to work in the south but this does not sound like a great school. If not for the pitiful rate of pay, this job in Qingdao would probably be quite good, I still have another week to decide before the FAO returns from leave. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. |
as a first timer to china, what do you consider a "backwater location?"
you'll probably never find the perfect job, you'll have to compromise on something. in my opinion, better to take a decent job in a "backwater" than a lousy job in a nicer city. |
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seagull
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 38
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. |
as a first timer to china, what do you consider a "backwater location?"
you'll probably never find the perfect job, you'll have to compromise on something. in my opinion, better to take a decent job in a "backwater" than a lousy job in a nicer city. |
I have received offers in places like Maoming (Guangdong), Zhangzhou (Fujian) and Yancheng (Jiangsu). I am not sure what these places are like but after doing research, including on these forum archives, they do not sound like the best place for a first timer to China.
You are right, it is looking like I may have to bite the bullet and take this job in Qingdao, my preference is to teach adults in a public college/university due to my previous work experience, and this seems to fit the bill (type of school, city, etc) other than the very low pay. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| seagull wrote: |
| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. |
as a first timer to china, what do you consider a "backwater location?"
you'll probably never find the perfect job, you'll have to compromise on something. in my opinion, better to take a decent job in a "backwater" than a lousy job in a nicer city. |
I have received offers in places like Maoming (Guangdong), Zhangzhou (Fujian) and Yancheng (Jiangsu). I am not sure what these places are like but after doing research, including on these forum archives, they do not sound like the best place for a first timer to China. |
i live in what could be considered a backwater city. but the advantages are: 1. i get a quieter, somewhat cleaner place to live, and 2. its not far from non-backwater cities that have everything the foreigner in china could want. maoming (which i havent been to) is close to zhanjiang (a fairly nice coastal city which i have been to) which means its only about 4-5 hours away from places like guangzhou, shenzhen, zhuhai and hong kong, making weekend trips to those places fairly easy. that's not so bad.
| seagull wrote: |
| You are right, it is looking like I may have to bite the bullet and take this job in Qingdao, my preference is to teach adults in a public college/university due to my previous work experience, and this seems to fit the bill (type of school, city, etc) other than the very low pay. |
there are thousands of university jobs in china. i think once you get here and talk to others, or look around on the net some more, you'll see that there are tons of opportunities here. |
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norwalkesl
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 366
Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. |
as a first timer to china, what do you consider a "backwater location?"
you'll probably never find the perfect job, you'll have to compromise on something. in my opinion, better to take a decent job in a "backwater" than a lousy job in a nicer city. |
Yeah. What do you consider a "pitiful rate of pay" as well?
Just curious as to your mindset and pov. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. |
as a first timer to china, what do you consider a "backwater location?"
you'll probably never find the perfect job, you'll have to compromise on something. in my opinion, better to take a decent job in a "backwater" than a lousy job in a nicer city. |
Yeah. What do you consider a "pitiful rate of pay" as well?
Just curious as to your mindset and pov. |
Anything that averages out to less than 100y an hour, to me, would be if not "pitiful" then unacceptable...
If you are working 25 hrs a week, nothing less than 10000y a month would be adequate. If its 14 hrs a week, 5600y would be fine, give or take a few y...Why anyone would work for a monthly renumeration of 3500y for full time is beyond me. Thats, at most, 2 days pay back home. May as well save for a few months, and not set foot in a classroom here. |
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motown
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in backwater locations. I also had an offer from David Hawk International English in Guangzhou, and would prefer to work in the south but this does not sound like a great school. If not for the pitiful rate of pay, this job in Qingdao would probably be quite good, I still have another week to decide before the FAO returns from leave. |
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You are very wise not to consider "backwater cities" on your first trip to China. Go to a bigger city first and then, if you desire, consider a backwater city which you might have a chance to visit beforehand.
One more thing, the foreigners that I've talked to who have visited Qingdao stated that it's a nice coastal city. They also stated the best way to find a good job there is to meet ESL at the local pubs. Maybe see if you can get a six month contract on your first run and then look for something else. Just my 2 cents. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| seagull wrote: |
| Thought I'd post an update. I have had several other university offers, but all in at backwer locations. I also had an offer from David Hawk International English in Guangzhou, and would prefer to work in the south but this does not sound like a great school. If not for the pitiful rate of pay, this job in Qingdao would probably be quite good, I still have another week to decide before the FAO returns from leave. |
Can I add that so called "backwater locations" in China can also apply within a city. You have quoted Qingdao as a preferred location. Qingdao has many districts with distinctly different characteristics. For example, Qingdao City has universities based in very attractive, very accessible areas.
There again, another university, Shandong University of Science and Technology is situated in Huangdao District. To get to Qingdao requires two buses and a ferry journey. On average, the journey time is around two hours each way and you have to get back before the last ferry.
Even within the Huangdao area, aside from on campus activities, there is no life or activity within ten kilometres of the campus.
Therefore, defining backwater locations is not a straightforward thing in China! |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jayray wrote: |
The OP has a lot of time to look for a job.
Shandong is not the poorest province, so there's no reason for such low pay.
I'd say thanks, but no. |
Now that I have an idea of the university that the OP has applied to, I would just say no, omit the thanks! |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 302
Location: Yinchuan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| I'd find out if they have an issue with you working on the side. Maybe find 4 or 5 hours of extra work a week to raise your salary up a bit. If you could bring in an extra 200 to 300 a week that's your beer and chips money. |
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mrwslee003
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:31 am Post subject: low wage? |
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Hello Seagull,
I think 3500rmb is a bit low. However, if you are new at the job-no
experience in teaching, then I say take it for some experience.
I think you can live on that and if the school gives a bit more on
your travel expenses, then I feel the school is being flexible and showing
good-will.
After you've been there for, say 6 months, and you find your skills
are worth a lot more then by all means negotiate for a higher wage
after the first contract.
Meanwhile never stop looking for another job in China. Make some
connections and I am sure they will come in handy when it is your
time to re-new your contract.
If you get on well with the admin and students then I am sure they
will offer you more pay to keep you.
Normally that is how it works. Don't try to guess what is not written
in your contract or how they try to pay you the least. Its a waste of
time, because your task is to demonstrate you can do the job well.
Good luck! |
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