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Hansen
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:25 am Post subject: Bad Faith |
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Section VI.2 of the SAFEA contract states: "Without Party A's [employer]consent, Party B [employee] shall not conduct any part-time job assigned by any other party"
Section VIII states: When either party fails to fulfill any part or all of the obligations as stipulated in this contract, that is, in the event of breach of the contract, the said party shall pay a breach penalty of $US 800 up 3000 or equivalent to 3 to 10 times Party B's salary in RMB.
Working outside your sponsoring employer's dominion, without permission, is a breach of the contract. Working outside obligates the worker to the breach penalty.
Some people enter into these contracts planning to work extra jobs and earn as much money as possible. That is called "bad faith." Some FTs have no intention to honor the contract. When FT's have legitimate issues with their employers regarding contract violations, those working outside the contract do not thave "clean hands," thereby weakening any legitimate grievance regarding the contract.
Many employers will not allow FTs to work outside, thereby impacting our earning potential and requiring us to become sneaky contract breakers or have limited income.
The breach penalties in the contract are becoming more punitive for FTs who break the contract. The breach penalty has increased $1000 from my previous contract to this one.
Solution? Qualify or invalidate this clause with a sentence or two in the appendix to the contract. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 768 Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Some people enter into these contracts planning to work extra jobs and earn as much money as possible. That is called "bad faith." Some FTs have no intention to honor the contract. When FT's have legitimate issues with their employers regarding contract violations, those working outside the contract do not thave "clean hands," thereby weakening any legitimate grievance regarding the contract.
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This got me. From my own experience, and those I have heard from friends in the industry in china, no employer intends to honor the contract. Hence the guilt trips, and nasty pushes for you to do Kindies in other schools, working on weekends "promoting" the school, or other such crap.
Solution.. is to give and take. If you want to work outside for more money, do the kindie for the school, but get written agreement from the school allowing you to work outside for yourself.
The only real way to be able to deal with contracts and the bosses in China is for the FT to have contacts in the local towns/city's administration. Without that, FT's will always be foreigners, and the bosses will always be the ones paying the dues, and having the influence. It is only the lack of replacements for FT's that give us any real negotiating power in disputes. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric

Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Bad Faith |
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Hansen wrote: |
Section VI.2 of the SAFEA contract states: "Without Party A's [employer]consent, Party B [employee] shall not conduct any part-time job assigned by any other party"
Section VIII states: When either party fails to fulfill any part or all of the obligations as stipulated in this contract, that is, in the event of breach of the contract, the said party shall pay a breach penalty of $US 800 up 3000 or equivalent to 3 to 10 times Party B's salary in RMB. |
are these extracts from your current contract? Section VIII of my contract says nothing about paying the equivalent of 3 to 10 times the salary as a penalty.
Hansen wrote: |
The breach penalties in the contract are becoming more punitive for FTs who break the contract. The breach penalty has increased $1000 from my previous contract to this one. |
but my contract does say this: the breach penalty is now $1500, instead of what it used to say - $500-$2000.
Hansen wrote: |
Working outside your sponsoring employer's dominion, without permission, is a breach of the contract. Working outside obligates the worker to the breach penalty. |
unless the contract states otherwise, people entering esl jobs in china shouldn't perform work outside their primary place of employment.
Hansen wrote: |
Some people enter into these contracts planning to work extra jobs and earn as much money as possible. That is called "bad faith." Some FTs have no intention to honor the contract. When FT's have legitimate issues with their employers regarding contract violations, those working outside the contract do not thave "clean hands," thereby weakening any legitimate grievance regarding the contract. |
but... they need to be caught working outside their primary job first. in nearly six years of esl in china, almost every FT i've worked with has done outside work, and i've never known a single one to be caught and punished for it. in fact, our school (the admin and the students themselves) are occasionally the source of part-time work for us. unlike korea (where they actively seek out contract breakers), the attitude towards FTs doing part-time work in china seems pretty relaxed.
Hansen wrote: |
Many employers will not allow FTs to work outside, thereby impacting our earning potential and requiring us to become sneaky contract breakers or have limited income. |
on the other hand some schools will allow you to work outside. here's what the appendix in my contract says:
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In principle Party B is not encouraged to take any other part-time jobs unrelated to this position. But if really needed to take part-time jobs besides the teaching curricula, Party B should inform Party A of the event and declare in written form that all activities taken place during part-time jobs are Party B's responsibilities. |
Hansen wrote: |
Solution? Qualify or invalidate this clause with a sentence or two in the appendix to the contract. |
which clause? the one prohibiting part-time work? this is exactly what the school i work for did (see above quote). other people interested in working in china can ask the prospective employer to insert the same clause in their contract. |
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Hansen
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: |
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ECC
Section VIII in this year's contract and last year's contract concern the breach penalty. Supposedly, SAFEA contracts are all the same. To what does section VIII in your contract refer? The amounts in my contracts are as above.
The notation in your appendix or something like it, should be included in the contract of those who plan to work outside. Some schools, however, will not allow outside work it and will not append the contract to that end. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric

Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hansen wrote: |
ECC
Section VIII in this year's contract and last year's contract concern the breach penalty. Supposedly, SAFEA contracts are all the same. To what does section VIII in your contract refer? The amounts in my contracts are as above. |
section VIII in my contract has three paras:
1. breach penalty of $1500;
2. what Party B should do if they want to cancel the contract; and
3. what Party A should do if they want to cancel the contract.
Hansen wrote: |
The notation in your appendix or something like it, should be included in the contract of those who plan to work outside. Some schools, however, will not allow outside work it and will not append the contract to that end. |
it never hurts to ask. if the request is reasonable, and its phrased in a way the school FAO understands, then FTs might be surprised at what might happen.
When our school changed the appendix last year regarding outside work, they never consulted us, they just did it. They also made a few other positive changes to the contract, changes which were very welcome.
One thing I've discovered at my current job in china: if you do your job well, and don't complain about trivial matters, the school is willing to work with you to improve things. |
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randyj
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 460 Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
One thing I've discovered at my current job in china: if you do your job well, and don't complain about trivial matters, the school is willing to work with you to improve things. |
Right. Foreign teachers who rely entirely upon the written contract are misguided, in my humble opinion. As a practical matter, the contract is worthless compared to the value of personal relationships. |
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Hansen
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: |
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What has surprised me is the unreasonableness (at times), of the administration. Regarding outside work, I went, asked permission, and was denied. More than once. It's a mistake to assume that reasonable requests will be granted.
In America managers, bosses, and so forth, are often interested in empowering, enabling, encouraging employees to try new things, to innovate,to be different. Here, people with power often use it to crush innovation, to thwart new approaches, and to prevent people from attaining excellence.
Systems in place are a nightmare to negotiate in order to do things "legally." Every person along the way, who recognizes a money making venture, wants a piece of it. If they don't get theirs, they will interminably delay the process or sink the project.
Mobster organizations realize the "criminal" nature of the legitimate system; consequently, they simply bypass the channels which they know will thwart their interests. Many "legitimate" businesses resort to various types of fraud and subterfuge in order to operate "legally."
While many FTS are worried about their salaries, there is more to lose than money. Things like integrity, honesty, responsibility, once lost, through the byzantine processes of China, are not so easily regained.
If you become a cheat and a liar to succeed in China, you have still become a cheat and a liar. |
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randyj
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 460 Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Hansen wrote: |
What has surprised me is the unreasonableness (at times), of the administration. Regarding outside work, I went, asked permission, and was denied. More than once. It's a mistake to assume that reasonable requests will be granted. |
It's a mistake to ask for permission. Permission requires a decision. In China there is rarely an upside for someone to make such a decision, only a downside. So the answer will always be "no". Better to transgress freely, then plead for mercy if caught. |
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