Job Discussion Forums

[NYCESOL11211]

I'm applying to Chinese and Middle Eastern Universities for the fall of 2010. I graduate this spring with a TESOL-related M.A. and I have a few years experience teaching adult language learners.

As I'm looking around, I see more and more there is an incredible discrepancy between university gigs. On one hand, I know of a university in China that pays almost 2K (USD) per month, with very good benefits and long vacations. That place only hires experienced M.A. holders in TESOL and TESOL related fields. On the other hand, many universities that advertise on this Website pay about 1/3 of that. Those places seem to hire pretty much anyone. Yet many highly qualified teachers seem to be at those lesser paying jobs.

What's up with that? Are some universities just blessed with much higher budgets? Why are there M.A.'s out there working at jobs similar to the latter when China has much higher paying positions available? Yes there are reasons, and I understand teaching hours and cost-of-living are all concerns. Still, it doesn't really account for the a 4,000 rmb vs. a 12,000 rmb difference. Does it?

[LanGuTou]

You would be lucky to find a public sector foreign teaching job in China paying 12K rmb per month. High end salaries are generally paid within the private teaching sector.

Huge discrepancies are not uncommon in China. There is, for instance, discrepancies in pay between Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and poorer rural areas. So one key factor is location. Do not, however, assume richer, more developed areas means higher salary. In fact the opposite can apply. Qingdao and Dalian are attractive areas for foreign teachers so supply and demand allows universities to get away with paying salaries as low as 3000 to 3500 rmb. Impoverished areas have greater problems attracting and retaining teachers so pay a little more.

As a general rule of thumb, most university or public school teaching jobs will pay in the region of 4000 to 6000 rmb plus accommodation. In the south-east of China, you may get more but usually around 7000 to 8000 rmb. Occasionally, you will come across some university jobs in the north of China that pay 7000+ rmb but working hours and conditions relect that.

To earn five figure salaries in the public sector usually means having some high demand, low supply teaching skill such as mechanical engineering. Even with MA/PhD. + Teaching Certificate, you are unlikely to receive such salaries as a foreign language teacher.

If salary is your main concern, then you should aim at the private sector and training establishments. It is very possible for you to achieve salaries in excess of 20K per month but the working conditions will be more demanding and probably less free time.

If you have found a public sector institution paying 12K per month, I would say it is worth looking into. On the surface, that sounds like a good deal.

[LanGuTou]

One thing to add when you see high salaries advertised on job boards:

There is no effective way to stop false advertising and dishonest claims in China.

Unscrupulous recruiters and sometimes even the universities themselves advertise salaries higher than what they expect to pay. Recruiting foreign teachers is a competitive business.

Watch out particularly for the tactic often referred to as "bait and switch" on this forum. A recruiter will advertise a non existent position with good salary and excellent conditions. When you apply, they will tell you that the university has already filled the position or are not interested in your application. They will then try to fob you off to some other institute that does have a vacancy on a much lower salary. They are highly skilled and glib tongued. They will fill you with all kinds of BS about this being normal in China and your salary will be reviewed very quickly etc.

I don't want this to sound like I am preaching to you. If it is teaching granny to suck eggs, then I apologise but still many people fall for it.

Maybe your 12K does not even fall into this category and is a genuine, excellent offer. You can find that out for yourself!

[Laurence]

Also,
some people just don't seem to understand job search and application procedures, regardless of their qualifications. Without adequate research, people might be led to think that the "come and experience China's ancient history" positions are all that is available.

I have had people actually ask me

"I'm interested in teaching English - how do I apply for a job?"

er..

hello?

[thefuzz]

If you want to make money working at a university, China is not the place to be. I myself spent a year in the Middle East working for a college and made/saved more money there than I ever did in China. So if you're in it for the money you can't beat the Middle East.

[Zero]

There are some on the board who would say you shouldn't accept any less than 12,000 RMB a month, housing included, with summers off, for no more than 16 teaching hours a week. Where they find such jobs, I don't know.

[randyj]

[AllwaysRollingBall]

How do you find a reputable recruiter though? Would anyone be able to recommend a few to me either by PM or on the board. I'd greatly appreciate it.

[RonHex]

they are all hit and miss.. it really depends on the school they set you up with.. i have yet to find a recruiter that will turn down a school.. meaning no matter how horrible the school treats FTs they will keep sending more lambs to the slaughter.. talk to current/former teachers.. if the school tells you they cant put you in contact with one.. or they say u will be the first FT.. run like the wind my friend... even if you do talk to a current FT.. you may not feel the same way towards the school as they do.. i love my job but i have seen a few f-ups come through that would have a totally different view.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

What 99.99% of foreigners do not know, or do not accept, or do not believe, is that public teachers can make 20,000 RMB+ a month.


Because most basic salaries are so low, most public school teachers spend half the day thinking up ways to make extra money.

For example, where I live, there is a Chinese middle school English teacher. She is in her 40's and her salary is about 3,000 RMB a month.

However, she takes home over 20,000 a month.

How?

First of all, she has "extra classes" after school. Students who attend these classes pay about 200 RMB a month. These students are guaranted more attention in regular class and more focus on them and their ultimate grades.

60 kids, paying 200 RMB a month? I'm not a mathematician, but it looks nice.

Then there are some parents who give "red envelopes" to some teachers to ensure their kids get the best grades no matter what. Or get to sit in the front of the class.

This is how China works, and we foreigners are shut out of this system. In fact, most of us are 'in' the system already but we see none of the money associated with it because we simply do not know that our salary of 4500 a month is from the government and the parents who pay 200 a month for their kid to have a foreign teacher are paying the teachers and headmaster---not us.

I currently teach about 1,200 kids. They pay about 200 RMB a month. I see about 16,000 of that money every month.

Who gets the rest?

My boss, of course.

So my boss sits back and I make for him 240,000 RMB every month. He gives me a fraction of that.

I figure 16,000 RMB is enough for what I do.

But I promise you all this: If I did not know how the system worked, I would be at about 6000 a month still. Maybe 8000 after all these years.

So, the sooner you learn the system and get your hands in it, the sooner we all will be making a lot more money.

[norwalkesl]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

It's quite a complicated process.

Every year, I ask for an increase in salary and/or benefits that would be cheaper than having to hire a whole new foreigner all over again and going through the headache of "guessing" if he/she is good enough for his school or not. My boss is quite picky and wants classes taught a certain way, so for that I am blessed because there hasn't been one foreigner other than myself who is able to do or would be willing to do what the boss expects of the foreign teacher.

I just stand my ground and if he refuses to give in, I start packing. I left the school twice in 6 years because he dug in his heels but ultimately I won out because he was bleeding students left right and centre.

One thing to remember is that if you are in a place like Beijing or Shanghai where there are foreigners falling off the boat wanting to teach, your negotiating power is decreased significantly.

There are a total of THREE foreigners in my city living here. One is married and has a job of his own in the foreign affairs office, and the other is my co-worker who is nothing but a nuiscance for my boss.

And having my own visa because I am married to a Chinese lady keeps the ball in my court--I can leave any time.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

...

[Zero]

Great Wall, that confuses me. How do you have your own visa because of a spouse? My understanding was that the only "spousal" visa China offered was a glorified (one-year, infinitely renewable) L (visitor) visa that does not allow one to work. If you've figured out something better, I'm very interested to hear it -- because I, too, have a Chinese spouse and I find the lack of a true spousal visa to be kind of, shall we say, unwelcoming on the part of the PRC.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]