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Rich B
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 12 Location: Marietta Georgia USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: "Lord, give that punk a break" cert. sci tchr w ne |
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1st post. clueless, ex science teacher with new TESOL. I've been reading for a month and feel I'm still kind of clueless. I hope some soul will advise me well.
I�ve been reading these posts for a month and I can�t figure out where to start out. I�d like to go someplace, and teach for somebody, but even after reading posts for a month, I can�t even narrow it down to which continent! I hope you can help me make good decisions, as I need to do something right. Ever been at a place in life like that? I've tried to prepare a dime's worth of CV, so anyone willing to think and post advice will know that I'm not wasting their effort on a whim.
But it seems to me I�d be a good asset for somebody, eh? Here�s what they�d get:
My name is Richard, I�m 53 years old. Male. Born in the USA, of an Italian/Canadian mother and a Welsh father. My last name is �Bodycombe�.
BA Biology, Southern Methodist University, Dallas Texas. Post graduate teacher certification from Georgia State University, I still hold an expired but instantly renewable State of Georgia teaching certificate to teach any of the sciences (called a T-4). Have also worked as a librarian, but am not a real librarian (real librarians have masters� in library science).
Have five or six years as a science and reading teacher ending some thirteen years ago. Had regular teaching posts for a middle school (reading and basic physics), a high school (physics and biology). Have some university experience as coordinator of laboratory services, (Mercer University, Macon) and as a laboratory sciences instructor there. Even did a short stint as a stand in for a science education professor (my old mentor, Jack Hazzard) at Georgia State University (cancer in the family).
So the next thirteen years to present day, I did a few years as a field agent for the US Department of Commerce, and then a decade as book publisher, but recently, our little company went under. I owned 80%, so I went down, too.
Just finished the TESOL from Canadian Institute of English, November 2009, in preparation for this moment: kids are grown and moved away, wife is gone, company has foundered, I�m sick of the American southeast, which I never liked in the first place (except the warm weather) and so its time for some fresh air and a new venue.
Extras: Tied for first in the USA�s National Teachers Exam out of 1.7 million examinees. (1994) (A statistical tie with some guy in California, as all exams are not identical).
In 1994, the last year I taught as a full time professional, my students won the Atlanta Metro Area Science Bowl. Considering what a financially challenged school that was, (97% of students were on the federal lunch program; education speak for, �This is a school in a very poor part of Atlanta�) this was a substantial achievement for these children.
Consistently test out in the 99th percentile in English in graduate record exams, National Teacher Exams, and the like. (My mother was a librarian and I was in love with my Latin teacher as a child. Teacher, publisher, librarian, there�s a bookworm theme in there somewhere.)
May have some extra skill in the psychology of learning, both theory and practice.
I may have some extra skill at teaching "techniques", learned from my principal mentors: Drs. Jack Hazzard, Deron Boyles, Harry Cotton, and one or two others; and honed in some tough schools.
Speak a grammatically primitive, but crudely serviceable Spanish.
Have a warm temperament and still very much interested in people and life. Game for new cultural variations, not rigid or dogmatic. Kind of unconventional in some ways, but a man of generally temperate habits. I won't embarrass you. No criminal record of any kind, the FBI checks out commerce agents pretty sincerely, so I passed all that, though i do remember my mother was astonished, "How did you pass an FBI check?" she exclaimed.
Dead broke. When business foundered, I didn't have to declare bankruptcy, but paying up took it all, down to the skin. Not a greedy guy, but must make enough money to support myself and save a little bit; whatever I do next. Enough (finally) about me.
1. Where is a good market for ESL teachers? I thought Spain would be nice for a first outing, as I could get by in the language and maybe finally get truly fluent. Plus, its a cool place, everyone says so. Access to the rest of Europe, which I've never been across either ocean.
Also, I think it would be nice to go someplace without a type A work ethic. Don't get me wrong I'll be as good as I can. I work at it. But something restful would be welcome. Teaching here (provincial Georgia USA in rough schools with 140 students a day and 5-6 classes/day? I don't want to be a behavior control specialist for the state.) No thanks. No PhD so university is out.
But your posts suggest that there are already many fine English teachers in Spain, with EU passports, and that they just plain don't need me for anything. So scratch Spain.
(Harry told me Thailand was warm, restful, and the best cultural experience in Asia... At my recently completed TESOL class I was asking everyone where have you been, etc.)
2. What about Central/South America? Can one make a living, and where?
3. People say "look at international schools, they are nice, and one has good students, and can earn a living". Honestly, I'm not sure I know what an "international school" is. What's different about them?
4. Some people tell me that some universities where they really need people would be glad to have me, even though I don't have a PhD. I saw in the posts that some places in Mexico were taking people like me. Also, Croatia, Poland, and other 'new' EU countries might be accepting. One of my best pals is a giant, half Bosnian, half Serb, and he's from Sarajevo. He says 'with my personality' the Croats, Bosnians, Poles etc would enjoy me, and I them, and I believe him. I think I know what he means. Is this a good choice? How About places like Istanbul, Constantinople, rich in histroy as the worlds crossroads?...Or even Dubai or Abu Dahbi. At the latter two, I heard the pay was good, but one had to be so careful and confined, and really, lots of people were hostile.
5. It occurs to me that generalizing about a country would be naive.
Suppose I was asked, "What's it like to teach in the USA?" Well, where are you talking about? South LA, or laid back Key West? Rural Montana or New York City? Liberal San Francisco, or rural West Virginia? This must be true for everywhere else. Cantonese Hong Kong or Mandarin Bejing, or rural somewhere in China's steppe?
6. What about Taiwan? They seem to be kind of a happy medium; actively recruiting, pretty decent pay, the weather seems warm, the accommodations nice, and the people, food and etc all sound welcoming, and they seem to take care to remove obstacles from a new person's path. I could take a shot at learning Mandarin, and maybe ending up being able to speak English, Spanish and Mandarin, wouldn't that be cool?
7. What about Japan (sounds like they work you real hard, and maybe aren't so accessible as people) Korea, etc. And big bad China herself, must be many different kinds of experiences there. Harry told me those willing to work in rural China make much money, and also those in HK do, too, but they are very different experiences. Harry told me I'd like Thailand, and they'd be glad to have me, and that I'd find ways to make enough money (he suggested a few) It does seem that the Asian Pacific wants people.
8. Children or adults? I've taught and enjoyed both. Children learn languages swiftly and know how to have fun with things. They're lively and endlessly amusing. I'm good with kids. But one misses the society of adults, their brains and the comfort of having peers, and the companionship and entree into (a new) society these adults provide.
9. What about intermediaries, placement people? For a guy who doesn't know what he's doing, is that smart? I almost started up with one group, but you posters all said they were cheats, so i backed off. They had me fooled completely. I notice Dr. T has a good essay on how to look at a contract, and what clauses to reject or insist on.
Language schools vs public schools vs whatever else they got?
10. Wow, it sure is a long way to fly for an interview, and so expensive, did I mention I was broke? But i can understand why no one wants to hire someone sight unseen. Especially a new TESOL guy with no previous TESOL reputation. I could be an obnoxious drunk ex pat with no intention of doing anything besides catching a..well, that's enough for now.
Those of you that could help me think this out, I sure do thank you.
Sincerely, Rich B |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Can't pick a continent? Rule out most of Europe because you are American, and they can't get work permits there. Eastern Europe is ok, though.
With your teaching experience and certification, you should be looking for international schools. Would you teach science or English there?
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3. People say "look at international schools, they are nice, and one has good students, and can earn a living". Honestly, I'm not sure I know what an "international school" is. What's different about them? |
What is different is that you teach the subject (math, geography, whatever, in English, and not have to worry so much about language communication). Plus, salaries are usually higher than language teacher jobs. More here:
http://www.iss.edu/index.asp
http://www.overseasdigest.com/odsamples/ambrose.html
http://www.state.gov/m/a/os/c16899.htm
http://www.teachabroad.com/search.cfm
http://www.tieonline.com/
Being "dead broke" probably means you need someone to pay your way to the country of choice? Maybe even set you up in an apartment?
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I think it would be nice to go someplace without a type A work ethic. Don't get me wrong I'll be as good as I can. I work at it. But something restful would be welcome. |
I thought type A personalities (same as work ethic?) were hard-driven types, not restful. If you want entry level EFL work, you are going to have to accept the fact that some countries have 5-8 classes per day.
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No PhD so university is out. |
Not needed in some countries.
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5. It occurs to me that generalizing about a country would be naive.
Suppose I was asked, "What's it like to teach in the USA?" Well, where are you talking about? ... This must be true for everywhere else. |
True. Once you've pinned down a region or country, go to that forum and get more info directly from people who are/were there.
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7. What about Japan (sounds like they work you real hard, and maybe aren't so accessible as people) Korea, etc. |
This is my area. What do you mean by "accessible as people"? Japanese are usually reserved, yes, and especially with foreigners, and even with themselves they put up a front or avoid confrontations (re: honne and tatemae). As for working you real hard, as I wrote earlier, entry level jobs may have 5-8 classes per day, whether in conversation school or public school. If that's too hard, then look elsewhere. Your shots at entering Japan are to be a conversation school instructor or ALT at a public school. In both cases you might have a boss who is Japanese or foreign and quite probably half your age. Can you deal with that? Come to the Japan forum for more info if you are still interested.
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8. Children or adults? |
You've taught both, and seem to favor the adults for companionship, but your adult students will not usually be able to converse with you in English, so be prepared for that barrier, no matter how friendly and open the country and culture is.
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9. What about intermediaries, placement people? For a guy who doesn't know what he's doing, is that smart? |
Speaking for Japan, don't go that route.
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10. Wow, it sure is a long way to fly for an interview, and so expensive, did I mention I was broke? |
Some places are willing to do phone or Skype interviews. Rare places hire sight unseen (dangerous). And, if you can't come to the majority of places (in their country, that is), then some employers see it as not showing enough commitment, despite your empty pocketbook. They want a body, not a place to pay your salary. |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Im sure you would be an asset for someone. I really enjoyed reading your opening post too. Im fairly inexperienced compared to many on the board, but will add and confirm a few points based either on my experience, or from the sheer amount of posts Ive read here.
As Glenski suggests, the EU is probably out due to nationality. Whilst the new EU countries may accept you ... ESL wages in these countries do appear to be quite low. I have been researching jobs in Poland and have found working hours to be fairly high, with salaries fairly low. That would appear to be a combination that wouldnt suit you. For that reason, I would think Europe is a non starter. Latin America would appear to be the same, with low wages making it hard for the newbie
International schools ... as far as I know, (and this is just from reading here and having friends abroad) are just regular schools in other countries that offer schooling for the children of ex-pats. That being the case, I would think the work in an International school will be the same type of work you would do if you were in a regular state school at home. I would guess that isnt what you want to do, simply because you wouldnt have needed the TEFL qualification for that. I could be wrong there of course ... and anyone else can correct that for me.
Anyway ... I have worked in China for a couple of years, and I actually fly back there tomorrow. That laid back lifestyle you mention does exist there, the job I am flying to consists of just 2 x 80 min classes a day, and my last job there was similar in just 12 hours of lessons a week. University work in China would be possible for you, and is normally associated with low working hours so might be worth looking at.
Salary in China can be low though. In fairness, even the lowest salary does allow for good day to day living, but long term planning may be difficult, or impossible on China wages. Housing is normally included though, as is costs for a flight home when the contract ends.
I think if you could find the right job/city in China, you might enjoy it. Although it is not without difficulties, the people are very hospitable and friendly and you wouldnt be short of company. Finding the right place can be hard though .... lots of horror stories in China if you read the forums. |
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Insubordination

Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 394 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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I know the USA isn't a Commonwealth country but with Canadian/Italian/Welsh parents, you should at least investigate the possibility of legally working in one of those countries. |
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anyway
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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It's obvious you've got a lot going for you. Choices are always tough, no matter what we're looking at, but at the end of the day something has got to tip the scales...usually time or money... are you in a hurry to find something?
First of all, renew your license. You may never use it again, but I imagine it would be difficult if not impossible to do from abroad. It is difficult to save 'much' money on the typical ESL teacher's salary in most countries, but certified teachers are always paid much 'better'.
I think there are some really interesting opportunities at international schools (K-12) around the world. Most will follow either the International Baccalaureate curriculum or the British system. So they ask for familiarity and/or experience with such. Those jobs might be a bit demanding time-wise and might entail the wealthier Type A parents as well. Now and then I see ads from some smaller private schools (often in developing countries) which don't require certification and would, I think, really love to have someone of your ilk on their staff. Terms and condition might be more enjoyable, yet less rewarding financially...
I think your experience could lead to a university position, but lack of previous in-country experience could be a sticking point, not to mention lots of competition to teach at a uni. Plus, there is a big difference between teaching 'for credit' English classes (for ESL specialists) and the 'mandatory' general English classes (most positions). The latter are only different from teaching adults at a private institute in that the adults at an institute are (probably) paying from their own pockets whereas the uni kids are not. Can make all the difference in motivation...
I think you could easily find a happy medium somewhere in China (or another developing country) at a private secondary school which would allow you to teach science in English. Unis in China almost invariably pay bottom dollar but would hire you in a hearbeat. Once you're there, you can make extra coin by tutoring privates, helping other faculty with editing/publications, etc.
In fact, you should check the South China Seas (Hong Kong) online classifieds because I see a fair number of ads for positions related to editing/publishing/etc in there. Don't underestimate that side of your resume... |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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anyway wrote: |
I think your experience could lead to a university position, but lack of previous in-country experience could be a sticking point, not to mention lots of competition to teach at a uni. |
Just where did you imagine a person with only a BA degree could get a university position? A few countries that permit that exist, but most do not. It has very little to do with "experience" and more to do with degree.
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I think you could easily find a happy medium somewhere in China (or another developing country) at a private secondary school which would allow you to teach science in English. |
Will the students actually be able to understand it? Will he be certified to do so? I think that safety in the lab will also be a major factor; if he can't read/write/explain the safety issues, he won't be allowed in the lab. |
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anyway
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 109
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it seems you answered your own question. I got the idea from the countries that hire teachers with a BA like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Korea, Mexico, China, probably Vietnam, Thailand and Turkey too.
If they are an English-medium school (as many private international schools are), then they probably figure the students will be able to understand his English, eh Sherlock? |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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If they are an English-medium school (as many private international schools are), then they probably figure the students will be able to understand his English, eh Sherlock? |
I was responding to the post which said a "private secondary school", not an international one. Same feelings on that one? |
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perfectweapon
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 58 Location: Roaming the wild blue yonder
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Try the website below if you want a good CV. I give this site to my students and I get great results.
www.cvtips.com |
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naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
anyway wrote: |
I think your experience could lead to a university position, but lack of previous in-country experience could be a sticking point, not to mention lots of competition to teach at a uni. |
Just where did you imagine a person with only a BA degree could get a university position? A few countries that permit that exist, but most do not. It has very little to do with "experience" and more to do with degree. |
Also to do with connections. I know that with a BA he could teach in a uni in Oman, Peru and Korea. And there's always China 
Last edited by naturegirl321 on Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yaramaz

Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2384 Location: Not where I was before
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote:
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Just where did you imagine a person with only a BA degree could get a university position? A few countries that permit that exist, but most do not. It has very little to do with "experience" and more to do with degree. |
I have worked in a uni in Turkey, am currently working for an Australian uni in China and have been offered (but turned down) work in an Omani university. I have a BA, Tefl cert and 8 years' experience (and only 3 years when I got the Turkish job). It isn't impossible at all. |
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anyway
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 109
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
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If they are an English-medium school (as many private international schools are), then they probably figure the students will be able to understand his English, eh Sherlock? |
I was responding to the post which said a "private secondary school", not an international one. Same feelings on that one? |
As hard as it may be to believe, yes. I was talking about any English-medium school whether that's a private school calling itself 'international' because it follows IB/UK curriculum (and is accredited as such) or a 'private' school following the national curriculum yet preparing students for study abroad.
Of course, there probably ARE 'private' native-language schools which wouldn't hire him to teach science in English (or allow him in the science lab) due to safety considerations. Then again, I suppose such a school might hire him as an English teacher, but he might have class in the science lab due to lack of classrooms.
Rich, how would you feel about giving safety instructions in universal sign language - like a flight attendant? |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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anyway wrote: |
Glenski wrote: |
Quote: |
If they are an English-medium school (as many private international schools are), then they probably figure the students will be able to understand his English, eh Sherlock? |
I was responding to the post which said a "private secondary school", not an international one. Same feelings on that one? |
As hard as it may be to believe, yes. I was talking about any English-medium school whether that's a private school calling itself 'international' because it follows IB/UK curriculum (and is accredited as such) or a 'private' school following the national curriculum yet preparing students for study abroad.
Of course, there probably ARE 'private' native-language schools which wouldn't hire him to teach science in English (or allow him in the science lab) due to safety considerations. |
I guarantee that, especially in Japan!
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Then again, I suppose such a school might hire him as an English teacher, but he might have class in the science lab due to lack of classrooms. |
Nope. Been there.
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Rich, how would you feel about giving safety instructions in universal sign language - like a flight attendant? |
(fair warning, pun alert!) That is "rich"! |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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yaramaz wrote: |
Glenski wrote:
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Just where did you imagine a person with only a BA degree could get a university position? A few countries that permit that exist, but most do not. It has very little to do with "experience" and more to do with degree. |
I have worked in a uni in Turkey, am currently working for an Australian uni in China and have been offered (but turned down) work in an Omani university. I have a BA, Tefl cert and 8 years' experience (and only 3 years when I got the Turkish job). It isn't impossible at all. |
Thank you for that info. I'll add it to my list should someone else need it.
However, readers must also consider the following:
Doesn't matter in some cases whether you get work in a university with less than a master's degree, because in those other cases, should you decide to move on, you will get a thumbs down reply. Even within Japan, for example, it happens, and at my own uni, they have refused Japanese teachers for certain positions because the uni they came from wasn't high enough caliber (thus, the assistant or associate professor status wasn't equivalent). |
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naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
However, readers must also consider the following:
Doesn't matter in some cases whether you get work in a university with less than a master's degree, because in those other cases, should you decide to move on, you will get a thumbs down reply. Even within Japan, for example, it happens, and at my own uni, they have refused Japanese teachers for certain positions because the uni they came from wasn't high enough caliber (thus, the assistant or associate professor status wasn't equivalent). |
That's true, often when you switch countries you start at the bottom of the ladder all over again. |
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