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PeterDragon
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 50
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: MA TESOL versus Masters that just thas a TESOL emphasis |
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As I continue to way future educational options, I'm seeing a lot of Masters Programs that have a TESOL emphasis rather than being a straight TESOL masters.
In particular, I'm seeing a lot of programs labeled as "Masters in Education-- TESOL Emphasis" and "Masters in English--- TESOL Emphasis.
Here are a two examples, typical of many programs I'm coming accross:
MA English with TESOL Concentration: http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/sec_dtep.asp?CID=1557&DID=9547
MA in Education with TESOL Concentration: http://www.phoenix.edu/programs/degree-programs/education/masters/maed-ciesl/v010.html
How do these degrees stack up against a straight MA TESOL where landing a job is concerned? A number of these degrees are very appealing to me in terms of cost, location, and available financial aid, but I can't tell if they're a valid investment in the long run. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm also curious what people think about this.
My situation is different, though - I have a MA TESL/TEFL from University of Birmingham (UK). However, as I contemplate a change of employers I've realised that I don't want to teach language - I want to continue using English to teach professional/academic speaking and listening skills (what I do now and have for some years).
I'm wondering if a doctorate in Education or International Communication (does that exist) or exactly what would help me improve my chances of finding another good job focusing on the use of high-level English, rather than focusing primarily on teaching the language itself.
Hmmm, does that make sense? 
Anyway, I reckon the answers to either the OP's question or mine will be enlightening both ways....otherwise, sorry for the hijack!! |
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PeterDragon
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Spiral-- Not really a highjack at all--- you raise some good points about the potential benefits of an MA in not-quite-tesol. I could be wrong, but it strikes me that the programs I've linked above have a versatility advantage,potentially opening doors to other kinds of teaching than just ESL.
Also, OP, I think that the university of Wisconsin-Green Bay offers a graduate degree in global culture with an emphasis in global linguisitics. Assuming that's the sort of thing you have in mind when you spoke of global communication. This would require physically living in Green Bay, which may not be an option, at least not an appealing one. But perhaps other unis also have such programs. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: MA TESOL versus Masters that just thas a TESOL emphasis |
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| PeterDragon wrote: |
How do these degrees stack up against a straight MA TESOL where landing a job is concerned? A number of these degrees are very appealing to me in terms of cost, location, and available financial aid, but I can't tell if they're a valid investment in the long run. |
What KIND of job are you talking about? University /college teaching in the US? Or in a non-English speaking country. Maybe what you should do is look up a few TESOL master's courses (and Applied Linguistics, as well) and see what is required and what electives are available for people doing those degrees at those institutions. Then, line up the various other masters degrees you're looking at and see where they differ. For example, the English MA with TESOL concentration said something like electives in English. Does that mean literature, creative or professional writing, or something else? Especially if it's an all-course degree (as opposed to a thesis or major paper route) then you want all the courses to be relevant (the purpose of an all-course degree is to give you in-depth knowledge of many different aspects of the area, as opposed to extreme knowledge of one tiny thing, relatively speaking- which is what the thesis or major paper routes are for).
Once you've done that, if you are happy with what you see, then the rest is just the marketing of the education- the name of the degree. In general, you'll find that employers in English native countries (inner circle ones, like the US, Canada, Australia, UK etc) will accept more variation in the name of a degree than many employers overseas. If you think about it from their point of view, it's understandable- they are looking at resume's from people from all over the world. They asked for a specific degree in the ad, and so aren't sure of what's what when it doesn't say that specific name.
| spiral78 wrote: |
I have a MA TESL/TEFL from University of Birmingham (UK). However, as I contemplate a change of employers I've realised that I don't want to teach language - I want to continue using English to teach professional/academic speaking and listening skills (what I do now and have for some years).
I'm wondering if a doctorate in Education or International Communication (does that exist) or exactly what would help me improve my chances of finding another good job focusing on the use of high-level English, rather than focusing primarily on teaching the language itself.
Hmmm, does that make sense? |
Not sure. Are you teaching EAP to non-native speakers of English at a university? Or are you actually training native-level business professionals at corporations?
If it's the first, then wouldn't publishing articles in TESOL / A.L. journals help? If it's the second, then maybe you could look into adult education / training or even some sort of business communications qualification (Public Relations post-grad cert/dip comes immediately to mind, but that's for corporate communications). |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure. Are you teaching EAP to non-native speakers of English at a university? Or are you actually training native-level business professionals at corporations?
Both. A bit more emphasis on the first category at present. And the business professionals come to us - I don't have to work 'at corporations.'
If it's the first, then wouldn't publishing articles in TESOL / A.L. journals help?
Yes, I'm doing that.
If it's the second, then maybe you could look into adult education / training or even some sort of business communications qualification (Public Relations post-grad cert/dip comes immediately to mind, but that's for corporate communications).
Interesting. I'll look into this. I was offered a position on a doctorate program in 'intercultural communications,' but I've had a difficult time trying to narrow that down to something useful, interesting, and manageable so far. |
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Harvey
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| To maximise your chances of getting work a doctorate in applied linguistics would be better. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Are you writing to me or the OP? I guess me, because he/she is considering an MA and I am considering a doctorate.
Adding a doctorate in Applied Linguistics wouldn't likely enhance my CV - the MA TEFL/TESL is too closely related.
By the way, let me point out again that I HAVE work - I just want to ensure that I can maintain employment at at least my current level should I decide to change employers. |
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Harvey
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| You will find that an MA and a doctorate are so far apart that your MA will be of limited value when you go for jobs that require a doctorate. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not targeting jobs that require a doctorate, but jobs that allow me to stay in the field I'm in. Sorry, but I don't find your input particularly helpful. I'll wait now until others are have time and interest in contributing. |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: Doctor of Education |
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Spiral 78,
Have you considered a Doctor of Education, such as they offer at Exeter? You can specialise in TESOL, Educational Psychology or Special Needs. Apart from the thesis, there are 5 core modules, which include Data Analysis and Presentation, Critical Issues in teaching English, Curriculum issues.
This might suit you moving to higher university education in the future(eg PhD supervision) or as a freelance consultant worldwide on curriculum issues. I have done this and not looked back. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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This does sound both interesting and useful. I'll follow up, and thank you.
Question: what is the definition of 'special needs?" Teaching to challenged students, or is it an opp to specialise in something, like international business communications, etc? |
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 972
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: EdD |
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Spiral 78,
In this context, Special Needs refers to Special Educational Needs as in disability(eg. dyslexia). You may find these links helpful:
<http://www.education.ex.ac.uk/module_information.php?code=EEDD019
<http://www.education.ex.ac.uk/module_information.php/code=EEDD020
I hope this helps! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks again. I'm not going for special needs, but the rest sounds quite interesting. I do appreciate the input. |
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PeterDragon
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: Re: MA TESOL versus Masters that just thas a TESOL emphasis |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
What KIND of job are you talking about? University /college teaching in the US? Or in a non-English speaking country. |
Well, I'm open to either, but working overseas appeals to me a lot more. What I've noticed is that a lot of advertisements for overseas jobs say that applicants should have an Masters in TESOL, Applied Linguistics, "or equivalent". I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is what other degrees would "equivalent", so I can know my full range of options before making a decision on where/how to pursue my education.
In that order, you said:
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
Maybe what you should do is look up a few TESOL master's courses (and Applied Linguistics, as well) and see what is required and what electives are available for people doing those degrees at those institutions. Then, line up the various other masters degrees you're looking at and see where they differ. For example, the English MA with TESOL concentration said something like electives in English. Does that mean literature, creative or professional writing, or something else? Especially if it's an all-course degree (as opposed to a thesis or major paper route) then you want all the courses to be relevant (the purpose of an all-course degree is to give you in-depth knowledge of many different aspects of the area, as opposed to extreme knowledge of one tiny thing, relatively speaking- which is what the thesis or major paper routes are for).
Once you've done that, if you are happy with what you see, then the rest is just the marketing of the education- the name of the degree. |
If I'm understanding what you've said correctly, the proof that my degree falls under "or equivalent" in the international job market lies in the course outline. So what I need to do is find/build a Masters where the courses are similar to that of a straight TESOL Masters, then "sell" the similarities in my cover letter or application.
Did I understand that correctly? |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: Re: MA TESOL versus Masters that just thas a TESOL emphasis |
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| PeterDragon wrote: |
If I'm understanding what you've said correctly, the proof that my degree falls under "or equivalent" in the international job market lies in the course outline. So what I need to do is find/build a Masters where the courses are similar to that of a straight TESOL Masters, then "sell" the similarities in my cover letter or application.
Did I understand that correctly? |
Sounds right, but if it's really 'equivalent' then it shouldn't take a whole lot of selling. I think if you read them you'll see that usually they're worded like 'MA in TESOL/ Applied Linguistics or equivalent'. In that case what they want is an MA in TESOL, or (for example) an M.Ed (TESOL) - this is not a general masters of education / adult education with TESOL thrown in there, it just refers to the faculty which the degree came from. My own degree isn't called an MA TESOL, but an MTESOL (it's from Deakin University through the Faculty of Education. At Deakin an "MA" comes from the Faculty of Arts only. The two faculties are grouped together making it a little bit confusing, but basically what it boils down to is that there are relatively few MAs from that school [or many others in Australia] but a lot of M______ whatever the major happens to be. I've read that this is a common structure in Australia).
That's the other thing. If you are looking at these degrees with other subjects in there because your interests are broad (you actually want to study some literature or creative writing or whatever at the same time as linguistics TESOL things) then it may be possible to find a degree called an MA TESOL that actually allows you to do that. I think I read here or another forum that someone did theirs through LaTrobe in Australia and did stuff like that (but also said that he didn't think it was the best degree out there).
Another 'equivalent' is the type of thing found in Ontario, Canada. In Ontario, you can study full-time for a year at a university in order to get a TESOL (or TESL) Certificate. That's the same length of time as it takes in many countries to get an MA TESOL. In fact, the professors in TESOL-Certificate courses will tell you that it's the same program that they taught at the university they used to work at in the US, but there it was called an MA TESOL. That's also an 'equivalent' but in Asia (outside of the Middle East, apparently) it may not be accepted simply because the name is 'Certificate' and not 'Masters'. Universities in Ontario require ESL instructors to have a graduate degree, but they have no problems with someone with a masters in different area so long as they have a one-year university TESL certificate- especially if that certificate is from their own university (normally, if you do it this way, half of your practicum had to be at a university [the practicum is all year- you are in a classroom teaching and observing ESL classes once a week from the second month until you finish the program- in many cases until after you finish as either a paid instructor or as a volunteer until the end of term. You aren't allowed to do a whole lot in the university classroom practicum- they aren't using this as free labour!]). It's sort of a money making thing because the idea is that people will do their one-year TESOL certificate, and then they will do their one-year MA in Applied Linguistics or TESOL through the same university after working for a couple of years. Or else, they will teach overseas for a couple of years and then just do the certificate followed by the masters degree starting the following September.
| spiral78 wrote: |
| the business professionals come to us - I don't have to work 'at corporations.' |
No need to get huffy. I just meant are you teaching what is basically corporate communications to fluent users of English (as in you are actually an employee of the company training communications officers of the company- the type of thing that managerial heads of the PR department often do through a mentoring system), or are you teaching EAP to very high level learners of English. You're doing both through the university, and trying to find a way to connect them through an academic program.
An idea for the intercultural communications PhD that you've been offered is to do it in politeness theory (look up "universal politeness theory"). That was an aspect of the unit (one term course / module) I did in intercultural communications for part of my masters. Business etiquette is part of it- the extent to which resume's (and what information is required in them) versus personal connections are required in different countries. Also directness of discourse- Greek people tend to be fairly straightforward with their speech (it can come across as a little abrupt, to the point of being rude to some native English speakers), Japanese people are the reverse and can come across as being feeble to English speaking people in business relationships. The same can be said about different varieties of English. People are generally speaking more 'boastful' (the way they talk about themselves as if selling a product during job interviews etc) in the US than in the UK, and Canada is about the middle etc. Christine B�al wrote about French people working with Australians in a French company in Australia. |
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