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Ronnie
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:39 pm Post subject: About to graduate college, no idea where to begin!! |
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Hi, I'm extremely interested in teaching english in a foreign country, while learning the language of that country. I am an American and I graduate with a bachelors degree in Finance in May of this year.
I'm having a lot of trouble narrowing down my choices, I feel overwhelmed. I eliminated europe because I've read a lot of things about how it's hard to get a visa without being from an EU country, and they also prefer brittish engilsh as opposed to american english? even in eastern european countries it seemed that I would have a difficult time.
so I have narrowed my focus to latin america and asia. Unfortunately, that's still far from narrow... haha
I'm not used to super warm weather, I was originally considering Panama, but I think the weather might wear me out, I sweat a lot =)
I think visiting Uruguay would be a great experience but I read that the spanish they speak there is a little bit funky? same as buenos aires. So I think right now my best choice in latin america would be Chile? I don't have any desire to go to Mexico.
As for Asia, I'm very attracted to Thailand, but again the climate might make it tough. Is it as bad as panama heat/humidity-wise? anyone know?
Other than that, I've heard bad things about Korea being very xenophobic and Korean men trying to fight foreigners. Not sure if this is entirely true, but it does seem like a very image-concious society, filled with plastic surgery, etc. which doesn't seem very attractive to me. I apoligize if this is oncorrect, it's just what I've read.
I think my next best choice in Asia for a beginner at ESL teaching would be Taiwan? seems to be great pay without high qualifications. Hong Kong seemed to require more qualifications.
So that gives me Chile, Thailand, and Taiwan. Can someone help me narrow it down? I don't even know which forum to post in, even if I could just narrow it down to Asia or Latin America, it's so hard. I equally want to learn Mandarin and Spanish. Thai? not quite so much but I do still have a good interest in Thai food/culture
sorry if this is really really long. any advice is very much appreciated! |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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How much Spanish have you studied? I arrived in Chile with five years (on and off) of high school and university Spanish classes--granted, I was a bit rusty since several years had passed--and it took me a few days to be able to understand anything. Chilean Spanish is... odd.
Also, you haven't mentioned anything about what qualifications you're planning on getting or are willing to get. You just mentioned that HK seemed more stringent than Taiwan--which is true from what I've heard, although I've never taught in either. From a traveling perspective, sure, you want to narrow your list down to the countries that appeal to you the most, but from a teaching perspective, you need to think about how you can make yourself marketable for jobs. The standard entry-level qualification is a TEFL certificate. 120ish hours, on-site, with supervised teaching practice.
One last thought--working full-time in a foreign country as an English teacher might not be the best way to learn the language. If you've got an 8-hour day + travel time + everyone knows that you speak English and wants to practice with you, you need a lot of dedication to make the time to do your own studying. I'm not saying that it can't be done--many people do take language classes in their free time--but you shouldn't expect to become fluent in six months just because you're living in the country.
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Ronnie
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
How much Spanish have you studied? I arrived in Chile with five years (on and off) of high school and university Spanish classes--granted, I was a bit rusty since several years had passed--and it took me a few days to be able to understand anything. Chilean Spanish is... odd.
Also, you haven't mentioned anything about what qualifications you're planning on getting or are willing to get. You just mentioned that HK seemed more stringent than Taiwan--which is true from what I've heard, although I've never taught in either. From a traveling perspective, sure, you want to narrow your list down to the countries that appeal to you the most, but from a teaching perspective, you need to think about how you can make yourself marketable for jobs. The standard entry-level qualification is a TEFL certificate. 120ish hours, on-site, with supervised teaching practice.
One last thought--working full-time in a foreign country as an English teacher might not be the best way to learn the language. If you've got an 8-hour day + travel time + everyone knows that you speak English and wants to practice with you, you need a lot of dedication to make the time to do your own studying. I'm not saying that it can't be done--many people do take language classes in their free time--but you shouldn't expect to become fluent in six months just because you're living in the country.
d |
thanks for the response. You're right, I didn't talk about qualifications and certifications. I guess I planned on picking a location, and then figuring out the training and visas I need, etc.
I don't have any spanish knowledge whatsoever, aside from the basic stuff that all Americans know. If Chilean spanish is odd too I probably don't want to go there to learn. Since that was my reason for eliminating Uruguay.
I've read a lot of posts on here basically stating that language schools in Taiwan will hire you if you "have a pulse and are not disfigured or deformed" haha. I don't know how true this is, but it sure made me hesitant to pay money for a TEFL course.
If I can get a job without it, I figured once I have some teaching experience, I'll be fine without it. Experience > some certificate, right? Maybe not, I'll probably be a bad teacher if I don't have any training. I'll look into taking a TEFL course wherever I choose to teach. |
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runthegauntlet
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 92
Location: the Southlands of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: |
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If you want to learn Mandarin, Taiwan may be the best place for you, though they speak Taiwanese as well. Maybe check out the China forums as well?
As mentionded before, you may also want to keep in mind that when you teach, you'll be using English. You'll probably be using English in the faculty room as well and within the expat community. It might be a bit harder to pick up the language unless you're quite disciplined and spend a lot of time outside of expat circles.
If you have loans or debts or anything, NE Asia would be a better choice for pay over Central or South America. You might also want to peruse the country specific forums to get an idea about start up costs, getting a job, locations within the countries, etc. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Taiwan is good, but taxes will be high until you have about 180 days in the country.
CHile and Uruguay, the visa might be hard, but check the individual forums
I've heard Thailand is nice.
AS for Korea, there's a separate Korean forum where you can get info.
Also, about countries being xenophobic, etc, it depends how you act and who you hang out with. Don't want to stereotype an entire country.
About plastic surgery, I'm pretty sure that Venezuela wins hands down.
One thing to check out is cost of living. Sure, taiwan pays well, BUT no housing, maybe no flights. Taxes are about 20% for the first part of the year. You have to take that into account.
AS for learning Chinese or Spanish, the best way to go is study, NOT teaching English. Or find a boyfriend/girlfriend that doesn't know English. That's a good way to learn too  |
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scrog_420
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 47
Location: State of Jefferson
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Ronnie
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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hmm doesn't seem logical to me. It's a proven fact that I can't get a job after 1 or 2 years abroad? don't think so. Especially in Asia... with a finance degree? cmon. My brother makes 200k+ per year in New York and found his job through people he met in the peace corp. I admit I know nothing about teaching ESL, but I sure know that I can get a job in the USA, that's what I went to school for.
I guess what I'm saying is learning Mandarin or Spanish would increase my value to an American company, not decrease it. And if I stay up to date and do a little research and investing during my year abroad, they'll know I haven't completely ignored my education for a year. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ronnie wrote: |
| I guess what I'm saying is learning Mandarin or Spanish would increase my value to an American company, not decrease it. |
Only if they deal with Mandarin or Spanish clients, and only if your job requires the use of it.
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| And if I stay up to date and do a little research and investing during my year abroad, they'll know I haven't completely ignored my education for a year. |
Having a gap of a couple of years on a resume is always a negative point. The onus is on you to prove that is wasn't wasted time (by "investing" your time and doing some "research" and keeping your hands in the field in some substantive way). Employers will see things as they like. |
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Ronnie
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Taiwan is good, but taxes will be high until you have about 180 days in the country.
CHile and Uruguay, the visa might be hard, but check the individual forums
I've heard Thailand is nice.
AS for Korea, there's a separate Korean forum where you can get info.
Also, about countries being xenophobic, etc, it depends how you act and who you hang out with. Don't want to stereotype an entire country.
About plastic surgery, I'm pretty sure that Venezuela wins hands down.
One thing to check out is cost of living. Sure, taiwan pays well, BUT no housing, maybe no flights. Taxes are about 20% for the first part of the year. You have to take that into account.
AS for learning Chinese or Spanish, the best way to go is study, NOT teaching English. Or find a boyfriend/girlfriend that doesn't know English. That's a good way to learn too |
You made some good points about Taiwan, as far as tax, start-up costs (flight + housing), etc. Is there an alternative that's similar to Taiwan but might tax a little bit less and pay for a bit more? I guess there's always Korea, they pretty much pay for everything. Is there anything in between Taiwan and Korea? as far as accomodations go. |
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Ronnie
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Ronnie wrote: |
| I guess what I'm saying is learning Mandarin or Spanish would increase my value to an American company, not decrease it. |
Only if they deal with Mandarin or Spanish clients, and only if your job requires the use of it.
| Quote: |
| And if I stay up to date and do a little research and investing during my year abroad, they'll know I haven't completely ignored my education for a year. |
Having a gap of a couple of years on a resume is always a negative point. The onus is on you to prove that is wasn't wasted time (by "investing" your time and doing some "research" and keeping your hands in the field in some substantive way). Employers will see things as they like. |
It's a global economy, learning a second language definitely increases my value. Obviously it would only help me if the company I'm working for actually cares, but I think it would be harder to find a company that didn't do business overseas than a company that does. I'm talking about large corporations, not a hardware store downtown. I'm a finance major. Every financial institution I could imagine working for has a lot of contact with China and South America. Depositories, Insurance Companies, Investment Banks... you think these guys aren't doing business overseas every day? Not to mention stock market finance. Brazilian stocks are booming (i know they speak portuguese but still), China, Taiwan, Tokyo, all booming. Trading international stocks and currencies is becoming quite lucrative if you know what you're doing (unfortunately I don't yet haha)
I think it all depends on the employer though. I don't think I'm 100% right and I don't think you are either. There are definitely employers who don't look outside the lines, and would be unhappy with my choice to take a year to travel/teach after college. But there are also a lot of companies that would like it. Would the CEO give a damn? probably not. But the person interviewing me might. It's good to be interesting in an interview, and have some life experience other than going to college and getting straight As (which I do). Trust me, I sit in business classes with 40 people, 5 classes per semester. 90% of them are all the same. Boring boring boring, nothing exciting to talk about besides their lame internships at a life insurance company in Boston. It's good to stand out. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ronnie wrote: |
| It's a global economy, learning a second language definitely increases my value. Obviously it would only help me if the company I'm working for actually cares, but I think it would be harder to find a company that didn't do business overseas than a company that does. |
Depends on the size of the business.
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| I'm talking about large corporations, not a hardware store downtown. |
I figured that, but just for the sake of argument (Devil's Advocate here), what makes you think a fresh graduate like yourself will actually land a job in a major corporation?
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| I'm a finance major. Every financial institution I could imagine working for has a lot of contact with China and South America. |
And, what are your odds of getting hired by them? Seriously, now. I ask because finance majors, IT workers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. are coming to forums like this looking to change jobs because the economy is so bad. Finance majors sound pretty generic, and if you are only going to graduate in May, you probably have a dearth of experience to land an executive job. So, it's entry level work you have to shoot for.
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| Depositories, Insurance Companies, Investment Banks... you think these guys aren't doing business overseas every day? |
Are you qualified for positions at them where your language abilities will be used?
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| Brazilian stocks are booming (i know they speak portuguese but still), China, Taiwan, Tokyo, all booming. |
Japan booming? Is that what this graph really shows?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Stock-Market.aspx?Symbol=JPY
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| Trading international stocks and currencies is becoming quite lucrative if you know what you're doing (unfortunately I don't yet haha) |
That painfully answers part of my questions above. Think about it.
| Quote: |
| I think it all depends on the employer though. I don't think I'm 100% right and I don't think you are either. There are definitely employers who don't look outside the lines, and would be unhappy with my choice to take a year to travel/teach after college. But there are also a lot of companies that would like it. |
I never said otherwise, did I? So where am I not 100% right on this one?
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| Would the CEO give a damn? probably not. But the person interviewing me might. It's good to be interesting in an interview, and have some life experience other than going to college and getting straight As (which I do). Trust me, I sit in business classes with 40 people, 5 classes per semester. 90% of them are all the same. Boring boring boring, nothing exciting to talk about besides their lame internships at a life insurance company in Boston. It's good to stand out. |
"Lame internships"? They are feet in the door. You seem eager to start above the bottom rung, and think that living abroad as an English teacher will be looked upon quite favorably for a finance job back home. As we have both already mentioned, this might work in some cases, but in others it will fall flat.
As I alluded to above, you're going to have to make the most of your experience abroad so that it will benefit the company where you apply back home.
1) If it's merely a language ability that you choose to flaunt, then you're going to have to muster the self-discipline to work hard at studying it and using it in real-life situations (because book-learned language is different). That means avoiding some social contact for the sake of studying, but finding the right social contact to learn, too. Bar-hopping with co-workers (a common thing with EFL teachers) will not cut it.
2) If it's finance-related experience, I don't think you will find much of it unless you get deeply involved in a business English agency, and even then you will have to divorce yourself from the teaching end to learn what your students do in their offices. If lucky, you might even end up in an office where you are the language teacher and have more contact daily with your students! One of my friends started out that way. But if you can't do these sorts of things, then you have to face the fact that you will be a 9 to 5 English teacher, learning the job and skills it requires, and have to squeeze in other things in your off hours.
3) If it's a life abroad filled with cultural experience that you want to use to impact your interview, that may work in select situations. I got interested in Japan because I joined a company in the US that needed people like myself to come here and set up a branch office. Not teaching. I learned a bit of the culture and business customs in 5 months, and a bit of the language. An internship, not in Boston but abroad, may help serve that purpose more than being an English teacher, so perhaps you should look into those instead of scoffing at your classmates. Besides, I think Boston will have jobs that you seek, too, so I don't understand why you put down your classmates over their aspirations.
If you don't get an internship or business English opportunity, what exactly do you propose to say to an interviewer about the cultural experience you gained as an English teacher? Seriously consider this question and how the interviewer will perceive it -- with value or as B.S.?
Best of luck. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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For info about Korea vs. Taiwan, check out the Korean board.
No country is better than another. They're just different. Some people love X and some people hate it. |
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dog@kew
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Don't listen to this Glenski character. The same person found a ton of reasons for why I should just give up. I think they want the economy all to themself. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| dog@kew wrote: |
| Don't listen to this Glenski character. The same person found a ton of reasons for why I should just give up. I think they want the economy all to themself. |
Excuse me...?
You should read (reread?) what mozzar posted on your thread here:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=824725&highlight=#824725
You only just got a degree recently, you're 31 and penniless, with only service jobs as work experience, yet you want to travel the world to teach, and you admit you have essentially no plan. You got sound advice from me and others. Don't take it as trying to stop you because you are some kind of threat to our individual economies, because you aren't. And why single me out, when others in our thread said essentially the same thing as me?
Read / Reread mozzar's post. You might also want to reread the advice I gave and the 2 options you should consider to make your overseas pursuit more likely and successful. Yes, I did give you 2!
1) Find an employer who pays your way. (rare)
2) Use your service industry background to look for business English agencies.
Or did you not understand that advice? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Don't listen to this Glenski character. The same person found a ton of reasons for why I should just give up. I think they want the economy all to themself
Those of us who have been around a while sometimes come off as being discouraging, though the key is in fact REALISTIC. I have personally seen newbie teachers end up standing on the sidewalk in some foreign country far from home and family/friends, literally begging for change so they could call home to get some money wired to them for a flight home. A little bad luck can go a loooong way when you are far from home.
Going abroad with starry eyes is great - but realistic qualifications and expectations, and knowledge about what is required to make it work is really vital.
We try. |
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