Job Discussion Forums

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

Hey all As my name may suggest I find myself in the never-before-thought-of position of being interested in a Saudi man for marriage.

I should add that its not SO far-fetched as I am a 25 year old who converted to Islam 7 years ago and I was once married to an Egyptian (met him there while studying there for a year.)

I will also add (and now youll think Im REALLY insane).....that we did meet via the internet when he found a blog I used to maintain about my time in Egypt. Here we are 6 months later....I cant believe we still talk every weekend and look forward to our conversations.

Anyway.....I went to Saudi Arabia for umra before, but thats the extent of my time there. I am interested in ESL because I have an MA in Middle East Studies but its not very useful. A TESOL certification would expand my employment options. Also, if I am ever jonesing to revisit the region, I can always do TESOL while there (or while married to my Saudi.... )

Now that my personal life has been shared ....I am seeing conflicting things about whether or not TESOL has an accreditation body. What's this for example: http://www.i-taa.com/

And is the $$$ for a CELTA/Trinity really worth it, only to get a certificate which will be little different than a certificate from a reputable, online company when supplemented with some experience? For example, the following: http://www.teflcoursereview.com/ical-online-tefl-training/#comments This company has 33 positive reviews, all but one positive, and the reviews dont seem fake.

I am currently a kindergarten teacher in an Islamic school. By default almost all kids are ELL's. Having had zero experience with young kids before this, I feel as if Im already getting experience! So why not pursue an online 100 hr TESOL course while teaching this?

[trustedteacher]

How are you canitbeiloveasaudi!!! Happy New Year!!! Both Islamic and Western.

As-Salaamu-aliakum,
Congradulations on your new found love. I hope that if it is for you Allah will bless you with a successful union Ameen.

My advice to you as a sister who was born and raised Muslim is to be careful and research all of your rights. Both Islamic as well as the ones you have married to a Saudi in Saudi Arabia. Make sure you research your rights as a woman for yourself and any future children you may have with him.Also research your rights as a married woman living in Saudi to a Saudi. That is very important. Remember in Saudi and in Islam if something goes wrong between you and him, Allah forbid, he gets full custody of the children.
Since living in Saudi from what I have seen many of the Saudi men are sweet towards their women. However I am not sure if you are American, but there can be some vast cultural differences you may have to overcome. For instance, I do not know how strict your potential husband to be may be. If you already wear niqab, I noticed most of the men in Saudi prefer their women to wear niqab. Also you cannot drive in Saudi which may not be a problem for you I dont know. You would have to get a driver to take you around or your husband drive you. You may also ask him if he has a problem with you working outside of your home, as I have seen Saudi women work but not many.
I dont think you are crazy for having met him on the internet. I have a few friends who met their spouse on the internet two from Saudi and one from Indonesia. They are still married to this day. It is the modern way of meeting people nowadays. The most important thing is know what you are getting into with him as an individual.
If you have a MA in middle eastern studies, I think you should get an ESL certification accredited by your state. That holds a lot of weight when you are seeking employment in the Middle East. I have not done the online courses, because I felt more comfortable taking classes that was accredited by the state of NY, where I am from. I just think it holds more weight then the online certifications but I could be wrong.
Also ask yourself are you pursuing the career of ESL just to be closer to him? Or is this something you really want to do? The reason why I am asking because if you and him get married then there may be other ways as a Saudi he can apply for you to come there to live with him without you having to change your entire career.Then maybe once you get there, then you can look around to see what jobs are available. Sometimes it is easier to get a position once you are in the Kingdom.
You may also want to find out if he has any relationship to the royal family and if so, how will this affect your relationship with him and his family.
I dont know think about all of this. There are many things to consider. I think you should find a way to meet him in person if you can. If you can get a visa to go to Ummrah again, he can always find a way to meet you in a public place. If he can get a vistors visa to come here, which I am sure he can, he should try to meet you if he is really serious about you.

I would pray on it.

[johnslat]

Dear trustedteacher,

Now that's an empathetic, understanding, well-informed, and lovely reply.

Family is, perhaps, the most important aspect to find out about. It's all important to most Saudis, and if any of his family have ANY reservations about CanItBILuvASaudi's joining them, it will, sooner or later, almost certainly mean BIG trouble.

Well done, trustedteacher.

Regards,
John

[freesoul]

Hi,

Here�s a sound plan:

First, get a proper CELTA-like cert. To increase your marketability chances in Saudia and elsewhere.

Second, you will find a teaching job in Saudi in no time; pay may not be as high as you might expect at first.

Third, meet you knight with shining armour IN PERSON. MOST IMPORTANLTY, ASK HIM TO MEET HIS FAMILY AS WELL. In Saudia, meeting a family can be rather reassuring of good intentions.

My bet is: getting married to a Saudi is almost always a terrible choice to make.

Obviously you are not disillusioned. It�s great that you have the theoretical intercultural awareness gained through you MA in middle east studies. Of course you also got a feel of what�s it like to marry a Muslim Arab from Egypt. BUT, in Saudia, marriage is a whole different level and world. BTW, I know you are Muslim now, but how much would accept being his second- or third wife??

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
Good luck

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

"Remember in Saudi and in Islam if something goes wrong between you and him, Allah forbid, he gets full custody of the children. "

Trustedteacher, I appreciate all your advice, and alhamdulillah Im familiar with most of it. I would say however, that my studies suggest that the issue of child custody in Islam is not so straight forward as it seems to many people. It depends on the age of the child, also depends on who the child chooses to be with. However if we are talking about Saudi, then yes it may be true that custody gets awarded to the male always, but that is Saudi, and whats Saudi and whats Islamic are not always in agreement.

Although he himself is fine with me not wearing niqab, if we were to live a year or two in KSA before moving here, I would wear niqab because it would make him more comfortable. He wouldnt want me dealing with the gawking, plus its what the women in his family do. Hes a total Bedouin, he grew up in a village outside Taif until the age of 15.

Despite being Badawi he is surprisingly open-minded and very worldly for someone who's never travelled. He doesnt mind me working. I am seeking ESL in case we were to live there a while after getting Saudi marriage permission.

He has no relation to the royal family---theyre very middle class. No maids, drivers, etc. He doesnt make much money himself.

Do you really think a 32 year old Saudi male can get a visitors visa to USA? We didnt even entertain the idea because it seems far-fetched!

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

[007]

[Mia Xanthi]

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

Yikes!!! Talk about getting shot down. Everything thats been written Ive already read about extensively from blogs of american women married to Saudis.

Nevertheless I just cant imagine stopping my communication with him simply out of fear of what *might* happen.

We tried not talking during Ramadan.....it only lasted a few days.....

Hrmmm..... He's so amazing..why does he have to be from the most difficult country in the world to marry from?

[johnslat]

Dear CanItBILuvASaudi,

I get the feeling that you're going to "follow your heart," no matter what you read on this forum.
And that's understandable.

Remember, though, that marriage is always a gamble (I've gambled three times and won only on the third try,) and in this gamble, the odds (about 50% of marriages in the USA end in divorce; supposedly about 38% now in Saudi, 33% of which happen in the first three years of marriage - and that's not even counting all those who, for various reasons, remain in unhappy, loveless marriages) are at least doubled, maybe even tripled against your union being a successful, lasting one.

Well, you'll likely defy the odds, and if you do, I wish you ALL the best. While a happy marriage for you is "against all odds," it's not, after all, impossible.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

Ms C

You are very young and you have already made one mistake in marriage. (not a criticism... been there/done that ) Think of how it was before you married Mr Egypt, and consider why you are now not married to him.

Think long and hard before you do this... internet/long distance relationships can be very intense because there is no reality. But the real problem is all of the things that Mia lists. Arab men are one thing when you date them and something completely different when you marry. Even the Western women who have converted and still love their husbands invariably advise other women not to do it... especially as related to Saudi. All of us who taught many years in the Gulf have been in conversations with sobbing Western wives who are trapped in unhappy abusive marriages and can't leave because they would lose their children.

Remember that you have the right to a marriage contract and consult a lawyer who knows Saudi marriage law before doing this. Don't let love blind you to self-protection. If you enter Saudi as his wife, you have no one to help you if it all falls apart.

VS

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

Apologies to Dave Sperling for turning this thread into Dear Abby but uh.....too bad.

Without sounding like some starry-eyed religious person, I dont consider my first marriage a 'mistake.' The fact that it already happened tells me that it was meant to happen and also meant to fail. Yes I take lessons from it on what not to do, but I also dont think the the failure of our marriage had anything inherently to do with his being Egyptian and me American. In fact I would say I was more religious than him, him more American than me, in some ways.

I am wondering whether the idea of living a year or 2 in his country, while cute and perhaps a good exposure to his culture and family, would put me in a vulnerable position.

I may consider telling him "no way" on this issue of living in Saudiya after marriage (he never insisted on it anyway). I stand to lose more (my children, if God forbid we divorce). Whereas if we marry and he comes here, the only thing he stands to lose is his Saudi citizenship. (My understanding is Saudis cant have dual citizenship). But then I told him I eventually wanted to make USA our permanent home anyway...so he'd eventually lose his Saudi citizenship either way. Perhaps living over there the first year or 2 IS an unnecessary gamble....

Maybe I can get a taste of it before we marry, by going there as a TESOL worker. I could use the financial cushion anyway, and in the process I can get to know his culture and family BEFORE taking the risk of living as a Saudi's wife IN Saudi.

Hmmm...... Ill keep working this out in my mind.....in the meantime keep the comments coming, I really am putting them all into consideration.

[trustedteacher]

I would look at things from two angles.
First of all all Saudi men are not monsters. I just depends on you and if you can adapt to their culture. If I was you I would research what rights I have as a non-Saudi married to a Saudi, living in Saudi BEFORE I go there.
I think your plan to go under your own terms as a teacher is a good idea, you may go there and see he is the same person you want to marry or you may find someone even better. I would go to live there under a work visa to see if you even like Saudi. You do not want a situation where you go and you hate the place and then stuck in a marriage. That would be disastorous.

ALL men Saudi are not say things that are good to the ears to get what they ulimately want, you dont know someone until you live with them and sleep with them!!!!
I would not stereotype also 007 all Saudi men do not marry more then one wife. Some only do that if they can afford to do so.

Also you mentioned that he is a Bedouin and has never traveled outside the Kingdom, that can also cause a problem with cultural differences and opinions on world view. One thing I know about some Arab men is that they are very jealous if their woman has more exposure to the world and education then them. He may sound like a sweet person, but is he your class? Is he someone that you can share common viewpoints with when it comes to worldy affairs and everyday life?

I'm very concerned because I have seen a lot of new Muslim women get burned by some of these men and then dont want to practice the religion of Islam anymore. I am not saying that will happen to you, but just be careful.

I think if you go as a teacher first, then you can see how he really is. Get to know his family. Especially the women.Make sure that his mother likes you and there are not any jealous women in his family that do not want to see him married to a Westerner. Remember sadly there are many stereotypes about Western women to the women there. Many of them view Western women as loose, disobedient or disrespectful to their husbands and too liberated. They dont realize that all Western women are not what they see on our TV shows. Which reflects some of these stereotypes about Western women being loose. You want to make sure that when you meet his family they understand that you are different.

Another thing is that when you are in Saudi make sure you choose a WALI or male representative for your marriage. That is VERY IMPORTANT!!! As a Muslim woman you will have more respect when you have a male to represent you and talk to this man on your behalf. If you know people there especially who have been there for a while or better yet another Imam or American Muslim who has been there for a while who can represent you, that would be good.

Also make sure that whatever he would give a Saudi woman for a dowry make sure you get the same. If he was to marry a Saudi and she gets a set of gold make sure you get that as well. HAJJ IS NOT A DOWRY!!! I have seen too many new muslim women sell themselves short, and there husbands do not respect them, because they got them cheap.

I think if you go there first and live there you can get to know him better. I did the same for my husband who is from Ghana. I lived in Ghana for one year before we were married. I am glad I did because even though we are both Muslim we still have our cultural differences, and when you live in your husbands country it helps to better know him and his family.
I hope you realize by him never have traveled outside of Saudi before, if you later wish to bring him to the US, he will go through a HUGE cultural shock, especially when he sees how the women dress in the US!!!

I dont think marrying a Saudi is a mistake. I think marrying anyone without full understanding of their culture is a big mistake.

More later.

[CanItBILuvASaudi]

[007]