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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
| thefuzz wrote: |
| (China seems to attract a lot of crazies and just plain weird people who probably can't survive the everyday back home) |
That sounds like Bangkok, Thailand. Guys who would likely be homeless, locked up or even dead in their native countries somehow managed to keep their heads just above water over there. Most even managed to hold on to a job, or bounce from job to job, and make ends meet.
What a contrast to Warsaw, Poland. Here, most teachers I've met are qualified and seem to have their shit reasonably well together. |
China is exactly the same...especially in Shenzhen (where I'm based at the moment). This place attracts the worst kind of teachers. I've been to Bangkok as well (didn't work there...just on holiday) and met a few "teachers" who were borderline crazy. So I understand your thoughts. The only decent place to teach in China would be Shanghai...better schools, better students and the teachers who work there are (mostly) qualified.
Good to know that Poland is different.
Again, thanks for your input guys! |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| I guess what always kept me in language schools was how easy it was. Admin takes care of all the logistics, you just turn up and fire away. |
absolutely. in the end, letting the school take care of the mess = less responsibility. also, i encounter plenty of no-shows while working in language schools and if your school has a decent cancellation policy, you get paid just the same. i've had months of say 120 lessons where I only taught about 105.
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| Then with commuting to various venues and cancellations the whole thing seems very unattractive. |
quite possibly the worst part of this profession......commuting. on a teacher's salary, it's damn hard to afford a car. commuting via public transport or left foot-right foot, especially in the winter gets really old really quick. if i had a car, it would significantly change my life, but I simply can't afford it. |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
| quite possibly the worst part of this profession......commuting. on a teacher's salary, it's damn hard to afford a car. commuting via public transport or left foot-right foot, especially in the winter gets really old really quick. if i had a car, it would significantly change my life, but I simply can't afford it. |
Why not just have the students come to your home? Or do the students prefer to have lessons at their home instead?
Public transport in Poland is quite bad, I have to agree. So getting a car is impossible? I would guess that if you have your own company, run a business for a year or so you would be able to purchase a car on credit...and with a salary of 5 or 6K that would be doable...or am I wrong? |
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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Really, like has been mentioned. Anything is possible, probably not in your first year though as you will most likely just being trying to figure out how to get to work and back and get some food with the least amount of trouble. You can get an ok car for 5-7 thousand PLN and sure you can take a loan, quite easily if you have your own comapany, although banks have made it less easy with the crisis. You need proof that you pay ZUS, contracts and whatnot.
I stress though, that your first year or maybe even two will be most difficult on all levels--until you get your bearings. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Why not just have the students come to your home? Or do the students prefer to have lessons at their home instead? |
i don't have any private students, at least not at the moment. i work for a couple schools, which requires traveling either to the school or to the contract's location.
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| Public transport in Poland is quite bad, I have to agree. So getting a car is impossible? I would guess that if you have your own company, run a business for a year or so you would be able to purchase a car on credit...and with a salary of 5 or 6K that would be doable...or am I wrong? |
for me, yes, getting a car is impossible. essentially all my money every year that i have left over goes to my yearly plane ticket to the states along with spending money while I'm there. regardless, living in Poland requires at least one yearly vacation out of the country for a few weeks, wherever that may be, and in order to accomplish that, you have to save all year for it. In 2008 I went to the Polish seaside by train for 5 days. Between the train tickets, hotel costs (off season), food and booze, we went over 3,000zl. 3,000 for the polish seaside and (2) 8 hour train rides. You can imagine what a 10 day vacation would run for 2 people outside the country, in at least decent living conditions (+ airfare) 
modestly speaking, if you could do it for even 5,000zl, that's a month's salary, on top of not being paid for the time you're on vacation, meaning it now costs you 7,500zl in actuality. tack on less work in the summer, national holidays, your private students cancelling on you, any other time you need off for other small vacations, sick days......and you slowly see that "5K-6K" number begin to dwindle.
| Quote: |
| You can get an ok car for 5-7 thousand PLN |
i would simply never buy a 5,000zl car. cheap cars are cheap for a reason and the last thing I need is to have car repairs added to my expenses, gas, car insurance, general maintanance, etc. By not owning a car, I have enough money to do things when I want, buy something when need be, etc. It comes with a sacrafice, but I won't give up all my "free time" cash and spend it on a car. I hate the freezing, the walking for hours along with the wasted time not being able to get from point A to point B at "car speed", but the thought of being broke and not being able to pay for a movie ticket for the misses and I.....an even more awful thought. broke in poland.....no thanks. Poland is dull enough as it is. |
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justflyingin
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| thefuzz wrote: |
Why not just have the students come to your home? Or do the students prefer to have lessons at their home instead?
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It all takes time. You can't really land one day and expect to have a full plate of privates the next month. (at least I don't think so though I've never tried such a thing). Polish people aren't really that quick at accepting the newest thing. Maybe a lot of advertising would help, but that costs money...
I'd think your wife's English/Mandarin skills would be very, very handy in this economy. |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| justflyingin wrote: |
It all takes time. You can't really land one day and expect to have a full plate of privates the next month. (at least I don't think so though I've never tried such a thing). Polish people aren't really that quick at accepting the newest thing. Maybe a lot of advertising would help, but that costs money...
I'd think your wife's English/Mandarin skills would be very, very handy in this economy. |
Of course I understand that from day one I won't be able to acquire loads of private students...I am giving myself at least 6 to 12 months in order to meet the right students and set-up private work. I'm guessing that at the beginning I will just work at different language centers and slowly do advertising and so on.
I'm hoping that my wife can find some work as well...and use her Mandarin skills to her advantage.
Thanks for your feedback. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm hoping that my wife can find some work as well...and use her Mandarin skills to her advantage. |
not to be a downer, but I really don't see how your wife's skills are lucrative in Poland.
she speaks mandarin.....ok. In Poland, any office she will work out of will be run in Polish, a language she can't speak, and a culture she doesn't understand. If she winds up in a big international company, it's going to be Polish between colleagues, English/Polish during meetings. Again, nowhere for mandarin.
if she gets a job that does work with China and they need someone to speak Chinese.....ok......but how much do you expect her to earn? I know Poles living in Wroclaw working for major international companies and were hired because of their German, French, Swedish, Italian speaking skills, and they're lucky to clear 2000 a month. and let us not forget, these employees speak native Polish, AND at least intermediate English.
bottomline, without Polish or native level English, she's gotta have a lot more going for her than "I'm Chinese and I speak Chinese" in order to make decent cash in Poland.
and forget teaching Chinese, there simply is no market here for it.....certainly not enough to fill a weekly schedule month after month.
i could be off on this, but it's just the way i see it, bud. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Master Shake wrote: |
That sounds like Bangkok, Thailand. Guys who would likely be homeless, locked up or even dead in their native countries somehow managed to keep their heads just above water over there. Most even managed to hold on to a job, or bounce from job to job, and make ends meet.
What a contrast to Warsaw, Poland. Here, most teachers I've met are qualified and seem to have their shit reasonably well together. |
I wouldn�t accuse you of generalising, but you are implying that teachers in Bangkok are inferior to those in Warsaw. Come on, both cities are chocka with nondescript private language schools who employ any old numpty off the street. I�ve been horrified to see what third-world lifestyles a lot of Warsaw teachers lead. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
| I wouldn�t accuse you of generalising, but you are implying that teachers in Bangkok are inferior to those in Warsaw. Come on, both cities are chocka with nondescript private language schools who employ any old numpty off the street. I�ve been horrified to see what third-world lifestyles a lot of Warsaw teachers lead. |
Yes, I am generalizing a bit because I've lived in both places for a substantial amount of time.
In Thailand, I lived in a brand new, gated, guarded apartment complex in BKK. Yet I shared this building with a farang heroin addict and a dude who pushed extacy and yaabaa. Not to mention several self-admitted alcoholics who were dating or renting girls 1/2 or 1/3 their age. Some of these guys were my friends, but part of the reason I left was because I didn't want to end up like them.
Thailand has lower standards for teachers. I haven't met every teacher in Warsaw, but I have yet to meet a teacher here who didn't have at least a uni degree (not that a degree makes you an angel  or visa versa).
In Thailand many, many teachers didn't have any qualifications whatsoever and were working completely off the books, something which is a bit more difficult to do in Warsaw - a guy named wojbrian posted recently here who was booted out of Poland for not having a work visa.
Take my generalization or leave it, but in Thailand you will bump elbows with some rather unsavory expats. In Wawa you have to look harder to find such people. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I won�t quarrel with you, because you make valid points, albeit one sided in favour of Warsaw and based on your Bangkok apartment with one tenant who sold extacy [sic].
Sorry for repeating myself, but Warsaw also attracts a whole load of nondescript language schools who will never check if a candidate has a degree or any sort of teaching cert. If you are 101% sure that every Warsaw English Language provider insists on such pre-requisites, say so.
But saying Warsaw is better than Bangkok, or vice versa, is nothing but an opinion. You�re not the only one who spent �substantial� times in both cities.
| Master Shake wrote: |
| Thailand has lower standards for teachers. |
Someone who never set foot in Thailand could be forgiven for such an outburst. You are more educated and knowledgeable. Granted, in Thailand the standard of spoken English is woeful compared to Warsaw, but as someone who has lived in both places, you must surely see the factors include education and culture, not to mention this Thai language having all these annoying tones and squiggly writing malarkey.
A foreigner entering Thailand via any airport can stay thirty days, whereas any EU citizen can stay in Poland until the krowy come home. I can also generalise with the best of them and could go on to describe the lifestyles of at least four Warsaw teachers who make your Bangkok flatmates look like monks. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry for repeating myself, but Warsaw also attracts a whole load of nondescript language schools who will never check if a candidate has a degree or any sort of teaching cert. |
arguments likes these could go on forever, but let's cut the fat and simply say that "TEFL is not a professionally run industry."
posts like these still crack me up, as if they're still trying to convince themselves that this industry as a whole is anything but. |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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The fact of the matter is simple: some countries attract more crazies than others. Thailand, for example, is heaven for the 50+ single man where he can relive the days of his youth...or the youth he hoped for but could never have back home. They arrive in Thailand, find a girlfriend and a teaching job and think they are living the life.
China, where I am working today, attracts all those without proper qualifications or even basic post-secondary education...they are able to find jobs and make a decent life for themselves. In China some places care about qualifications, but most don't: the prerequisite for getting a job is that you must be white and be able to speak English (you don't even need to be a native speaker in some cases).
So, yes, I agree that TEFL is not the most glamorous profession out there, but in some countries attract way more weirdos and just plain wash-outs than others.
Through various visits to Poland (and other places in Europe) I must agree and conclude that there are fewer weird people teaching English than, for example, in Asia. There must be something to it, I guess. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of the most professional teachers I have ever met moved to Thailand in their fifties and now have girlfriends and wives (usually both) who are in their late teens or early twenties. Actually, I made that up, but what does it have to do with teaching anyway? Is Tiger Woods (who is half Thai just to keep this on topic) unprofessional because he was unfaithful twelve times? For the record, I am very faithful but my golf is even worse than my teaching. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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speaking of "for the record", this is taken from Wikipedia:
"Earl, a retired United States Army lieutenant colonel and Vietnam War veteran, was of mixed African American, Chinese and Native American ancestry. Kultida (n�e Punsawad), originally from Thailand, is of mixed Thai, Chinese, and Dutch ancestry. This makes Woods himself half Asian (one-quarter Chinese and one-quarter Thai), one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch." |
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