Job Discussion Forums

[MDDude]

Hello,

I have been offered a position with a university in the suburbs of Shanghai. It is actually a joint venture between a language school and the university. The salary is 10,500 RMB gross. They have housing to choose from, but they don't pay for it. The hours and classes seem quite good. M-F, normal hours, maximum 15 90-minute classes. Lesson planning is done in a group of teachers. Health insurance with copay.

My qualifications are a CELTA and a degree. I haven't taught abroad before, except for my CELTA.

Thanks.

[LanGuTou]

To be frank, it does not look the best of offers.

15 x 90 minute classes equates to 22.5 x 60 minutes. Normally teaching hours are around 45 - 50 minutes so the actually teaching load could be very high although there may be a break mid way through those 90 minute sessions.

Lesson planning with a group of teachers? On the face of it, this sounds like additional office hours that you will not get paid for. You should clarify this with the school.

Suburbs of Shanghai can mean anything in China. You should check the exact location. It could mean two hours by fast train from the nearest civilization.

Out of the gross salary, you will have to pay rental fees for the accommodation along with electricity, water, maybe internet and telephone. You would need to find out how much you actually need to pay on that one.

Shanghai is not the cheapest area to live. Taking everything into consideration, this does not sound like a fantastic deal but may not be bad either. I suggest that you prepare some carefully worded questions to get more information from the school and then try to negotiate for less actual teaching time or more pay.

[MDDude]

LanGuTou, thanks for your advice. The area is Songjiang, which I'm told is about 45 minutes out via train from the main city.

I did speak with a person who is working with the university. The days are weekdays, 9-5ish. The lesson planning would occur in those hours.

The job itself seems to exactly what I'm looking for: university level, good hours, a support system of existing teachers and new teachers collaborating with lesson plans, and a focus on speaking. Right now, my hesitations are due to location and compensation.

[LanGuTou]

The thing that strikes me most about this offer is the workload. If those sessions are actually 90 minutes of teaching without a break, then it would equate to 30 x 45 minute classes per week. That, by university standards in China, is a collosal workload (I teach 12 x 50 minute classes per week for example).

It appears to me that you are also expected to devote more of your time to lesson planning with other teachers. It is irrelevant that such planning sessions are M - F 9 - 5. It is still extra hours on top of all those face to face teaching hours.

I don't think that 10,500 rmb is a fair deal for such a workload and, without paid accommodation, it looks woefully inadequate especially around Shanghai. However, you could try negotiating.

[tomstone]

Lesson planning with a group of teachers? Yuk.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

lesson planning with a bunch of other teachers is fine if you have no idea what you're doing and need a lot of guidance/brainstorming. but it doesnt take long to get the knack of things (and i'd rather just do this type of work on my own anyway). its easy enough to trade lesson plans/ideas with others to get something new for your classes.

fifteen 90 minute lessons is a lot of work (in addition to other duties). i had one job in esl where i worked 30 hours per week and after six months i didnt want to do it any longer. so i quit.

for a first timer, i think its best to break yourself in slowly so you can get the hang of things. look for a job that has a lower number of hours but still a decent salary. its easy enough to work more if you find you really enjoy it and want to earn more money.

[gregmcd101]

[Kram]

10,500 gross for almost 30 academic teaching hours + 9-5 + group prep and no housing in the suburbs of an expensive city is a joke.

[nickpellatt]

I dont think it sounds so great...but that could just be me.

15x90 minute lessons is a lot! I take 10x90 minutes and that is more than enough for me, more than enough for China really. One of the advantges of coming here, is you dont HAVE to take long working hours that you would find in some other countries. The long hours put me off the EU for example.

I also am less keen on jobs that dont offer accomodation. I dont want the extra expense or hassle...especially when it might mean paying a deposit etc. I guess I dont want responsibility or any unexpected bills.

Do you have a pressing desire to work in that location? If so, then that could swing it. If you arent drawn to the location, then the hours and lack of accomodation would put me off.

My priorities are as follows -

1 - Location
2 - Teaching hours
3 - Accom included
4 - Students ages and class size

If I dont get what I want there, salary isnt important. I realise everyone is different though, as are our needs. I live on a far lower salary than the one mentioned here, and live in accomodation that would only cost 250 rmb a month here ... again, not everyone wants the same. It might work out for you....

[kukiv]

[nickpellatt]

kukiv may be correct on some points, I am quite probably not the norm when it comes to such discussions. I guess it really depends on what the individual is seeking from his/her employment experience. For me, as already mentioned, salary tends to come far below any other factors I have to consider when I choose my job and destination.

This is something I have always done, not just in teaching. I have personally found I can get a lot more from my job if I look at things other than just the bottom line salary. Hence the comment about how important this location is to you, the OP.

I havent had a bad China experience in any of the three jobs I have had here, but I can imagine for some people, some parts of China may be unpleasant for a multitude of reasons. Bitter weather, noisy cities, bad students, pollution etc etc can really alter your experience here ... for this reason, I feel salary may be a less important consideration for some people.

The job mentioned, would be a non starter for me for these reasons. L
Ditto large classes of students in a big cold city wouldnt tempt me, regardless of salary, and I feel its quite a good idea to really think hard about what you are looking for from your job/city/experience first, and worry about the salary later. I do accept this may not be how everyone looks at their position though!

[malu]

In any country the mill-attached-to-a-uni situation tends to bring out the worst of both worlds. Expect the high workload and minimal holidays of a mill combined with typical uni problems of unrealistic expectations (dozy students with no English placed in intermediate level classes), Alice in Wonderland decision making (holiday dates changing last minute on a whim), and afternoon classes resembling morgues with sleeping bodies stretched out over desks.

[MDDude]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice. A few additional details:

- The 15 lessons per week is the maximum, and they say it is usually less

- They give you apartments to choose from. My understanding is that they can do the arrangements. I just have to pay out of my salary. Apartments are about 1700RMB per month for a single.

- Chinese public holidays plus 10 paid holidays

- Work hours are M-F, 8:15 to 16:10

[LarssonCrew]

I've only been in China 4 months now, but when they say 'You probably won't be teaching that much anyway' take it with a pinch of salt.

You WILL.

They will say whatever they feel they need to to get you to accept the job. 'Oh, those 15 lessons probably won't occur', but somehow they will.

[gregmcd101]