Job Discussion Forums

[Mia Xanthi]

[The Lathe of Heaven]

Grendal swallowed a furball or something. It's affecting his spelling.

TLOH

[EnglishDoYouSpeakIt]

Kalima Shahada

TLOH meant 'axed' as in 'fired'. A little too quick to error correct, aren't you?

Give me a break.

[Stephen Jones]

Mia Xanthi
The goldmine has long disappeared but you are ignoring the fact that a large number of EFL teachers are treated OK or even well by their employers.

Of course those employers, though they employ a fair number of the total of EFL teachers in the Kingdom, are severely underrepresented in the list of vacancies, because plenty of people stay on for years or decades. and so they have less vacancies.

[Mia Xanthi]

Stephen Jones, you should know by now that I have always been willing to admit that there are good jobs in KSA and that there are many people who enjoy comfortable working conditions in KSA. I was just objecting to KS was wrong in assuming that the reputation of the bad jobs was a) current and b) likely to dissuade people from accepting these bad jobs in the future.

I am fully aware that my own somewhat negative experience is not representative of all jobs in KSA. But I still insist that even good jobs such as your own are not the gold mines of legend. They are just good, tolerable jobs with acceptable conditions. And as you yourself admit, they are few and far between because people don't often leave them. Therefore, it seems reasonable to warn teachers that they need to carefully investigate a job in KSA if only because the job is easily available.

And by the way, we've known each other long enough (on this forum) that you can call me just "Mia" if you wish. Do I have your permission to first-name you as well?

[scot47]

Mia is right about Stephen working for one of the better employers in KSA. You will not get rich with them but they are okay to work for and treat you fairly.

Of how many employers in the region can we truthfully say that ? And the ones that can be said about are ALL in the state sector and they all hire directly.

Avoid any set-up where you are recruited by a sub-contractor or similar.

[InterRick]

[randyteach]

This actually happened back in September, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Like many of you, I was initially offered a contract by International Study Management in the UK to teach in Saudi. My main contact person was Carol, who first emailed me back in the spring about a possible position at a university there. This was my first time ever dealing with recruiters from the UK, and since the people I was dealing with were British, I was confident that I would not have to put up with the usual bureaucratic inefficiencies and ineptitude that we hear so much about from Middle East firms.

For several months after, there had been sporadic email contact between us during which time I had sent over all relevant documents and images related to my application.

In August, I was finally interviewed for the position. A few days later, I got an email from Carol saying I was accepted for the position. She sent me an email attachment containing the contract for me to sign and send back to her before the deadline, which was early September.

I signed the contract, sent it to her one week before the deadline, and waited like everyone else to leave for KSA in late September/early October.

For a few weeks afterward, I had not received any emails from ISM. I did know that ISM had reported a delay in issuing visas to teachers, and I reasoned that they would send email updates at some point when they could process the teachers into KSA.

In late September, after not hearing from ISM for a while, I decided to email Carol and ask for an update to see when the teachers would be going to Saudi and start teaching... and I received the shock of my life.

Carol emailed back, and informed me that she "didn't receive my signed contract." And since the deadline had passed several weeks before, it would be too late to apply for a visa for me.

I was flabbergasted. I never saw this coming in a million years. Never before had I been blindsided like this in my entire career dealing with recruiters or other employers. This was the kind of thing I would have expected from some Third World operation, but not a British-based recruiting firm.

And no, I did not mess up. I immediately wrote back to state that I had indeed sent her the signed contract one week before the deadline. As proof, I forwarded her the original email with the signed contract attached.

She wrote back, saying only, "I didn't receive it."

In retrospect, I did make a mistake: I didn't receive confirmation from her that she had received my contract, and I realize I can't take any chances from now on. I should have asked for confirmation and will ask for it in the future.

OTOH she had always received EVERYTHING (emails, documents, and images) I had sent to her that she had requested before and after I sent her the contract, and she had never reported any problems whatsoever. We had established a kind of trust based on our months long correspondence, and I had no reason to believe she wouldn't received my contract. And I had used only one email address throughout.

I really don't know whether she received my signed contract or not, and I'd be wasting time trying to find out. It's a very unusual coincidence that of all the documents she had received from me, the one document she would not receive would be my signed contract. My mistake in not asking for confirmation certainly aided her, and made it almost impossible for me to prove that "she did not receive it." But in any case, her excuse is poor and unconvincing, and at a minimum (even assuming she is telling the truth) reflects remarkable incompetence and irresponsibility on her part.

So bottom line: I never got hired by ISM in the first place, and didn't know about it until weeks later. I got the rug pulled out from under me big time. ISM later offered me an inferior deal (about $1000 less) I suppose as consolation, but I turned them down.

So now I'm back at square one. I did get hired by King Saud University recently, and the salary matched the original one I was offered from ISM. But I'm wondering if any other teachers offered a position by ISM (or any other recruiter) experienced the same sort of thing I went thru. sorry this post is long, but I had to vent. Just curious.

Best wishes to all,

Randy

[randyteach]

I take it this didn't happen to anyone else? I was just wondering if this is a commonplace tactic from recruiters because it was a first for me, plus i haven't been applying for esl jobs for very long so far

[Linda467]

Randy,

Awfully sorry to hear what happened to you. I know as a fact it also happened to a couple of people I corresponded for months.

I kind of saw it coming and have been working at PNU in Riyadh happily since October 3rd, and very glad I decided to stay in the capital.

Personally I have been very fortunate with colleagues and I�ve also found a space of freedom and respect with a small group of people from my country.

Regards,
Linda

[Chris_Crossley]

The best thing to do under such circumstances in future is to send signed contracts by registered mail a.k.a. recorded delivery.

That way, the sendee can never claim that the documents were "never" received so long as there is a signature from someone working at the place you're sending the documentation to.

[BillCowher]

...and, this is exactly what some of the older posters were trying to convey. Personally, I find it "interesting" that the most vociferous posters who posted hate at the oldsters have "oddly" gone silent after proudly and grandly announcing their securing of the bizarre new visas and their imminent departure/arrival to the kingdom of pain...

NCTBA


Unlike the old Business Visas that were written all in Arabic; the new Government Visit Visa has 4 words prominently written in bold faced font "Not Permitted to Work Personally I feel safer on such a visa because if absolutely necessary I can just leave the country albeit at my own expense. I'm not trapped waiting for permission from my employer. It certainly would be nice if I knew the intentions of EdEx at the end of my 3 month initial deployment.

[randyteach]

Linda: thanks for confirming that my case wasn't all that unique. Did the same thing happen to your friends with ISM too? Like I said, it was a first for me in 2 ways: both dealing with British recruiters and also the number they did on me. I had always dealt with American recruiters and this type of thing never, ever happened before. It was just inconceivable. I think my own cultural biases did me in on this one, as I had (wrongly) assumed that a UK firm like ISM was "safe" and "trustworthy" as opposed to Third World or Arab firms. Not that I would deal with or trust the latter, but I now have a much lower regard for British business "reliability" (such as it is).

Of course we must all be careful, no matter who it is. But this type of Third Worldish behavior from a supposedly "first world" UK recruiter really takes the cake. Yes, I tend to agree that dealing directly with the school is probably the best way to go. I learned my lesson, hope others have learned from my experience too

best wishes to all,

Randy

[Linda467]

Randy,

Yes to your first question and they are not Americans but Europeans, and while I do concede it does not happen so much in the States, it is not a question of nationality but of professionalism, although in my own experience most Brits are "all show but no go" if you know what I mean....

Hayat saba�a (life�s hard) in Arabic

Good luck,

Linda

[BillCowher]