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Are there any "good" online TESOL programs?

 
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iverin



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Are there any "good" online TESOL programs? Reply with quote

I've been planning on applying to the TESOL program at Woodsworth College at the University of Toronto (http://www.wdw.utoronto.ca/index.php/programs/tesol/overview/)

Someone I know mentioned taking an online TESOL program but I didn't catch the name of it. Doing the program in Toronto would mean losing a lot of work hours, busing two hours a day and paying $400 a month for said bus pass. If there were online programs where the end certificate would have the same qualifications as the in-person one I would really like to look into it. Any information about online TESOL programs would be greatly appreciated. (I already have in-class experience having taught briefly for 2 months in Japan and I've been tutoring with my local library since July)
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a university TESL certificate in Ontario (not UofT, though that's where I did my BA- I moved out east for a couple of years). It's the equivalent of an MA in TESOL from a university from another country.

Benefits: you learn a SHITLOAD!!! Especially if you didn't major in Linguistics, it'd be a real eye opener. You do a real practicum that could include teaching university students in the university itself.

Drawbacks: you could get a couple of years of experience, do a similar amount of work from a university from Australia, or the UK or the US by distance (off-campus study from the US is still not quite to the level of the off-campus programs in the UK or Australia) and have an MA.

And because of that, bitterness can set in because you will have a 'certificate'. A 'certificate' could mean a weekend at Aunt Sally's TESOL boutique (***act now and get a free red felt tip pen for marking!!!!***). A masters degree can get you into jobs at the university level. A certificate that's at the level of a masters???? = a certificate. BUT, if you want to teach ESL in Ontario, one of those certificates is required. If you want to do UofT's masters in SLA (or whatever they're calling it) you need either a TESOL Certificate from a university OR a B.Ed that qualifies for k-12 sector (not sure about Brock's B.Ed in Adult Education or Native Teacher Education programs) then the TESOL Certificate from UofT is required.

So it's sort of up to you. You need a couple of years experience to get into a MA TESOL by distance from more countries. You don't to get into a TESOL Certificate on-campus in Ontario. But a 'certificate' in TESOL doesn't say 'professional teacher' outside of Ontario (and maybe Canada), so you will likely have to get an MA in TESOL in the future anyway, but you may be able to get up to half of another MA as transfer credit, so it wouldn't be a total waste.

I have a CTESL (Certificate in TESL) from a university in Ontario. I also have a masters in TESOL from a university in Australia that I did off-campus. Together they are two very different ways of looking at language and so now I understand both. I wouldn't trade in either and one is not better than the other (though one is definitely more marketable than the other). But I did spend an awful lot more money than I had to to get the level of education that I have.
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iverin



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply!

I guess my main question really is which program would be best to take the wouldn't result in wasting my money (basically). I'm already way over my head in debt from my undergrad and I'm trying not to add too much to that. Another big question is what is the difference between the certificate program and a diploma program. For example, the program at Woodsworth is 8 months long and called a certificate but this program at Greystone is 12 weeks long and called a diploma (http://www.greystonecollege.com/toronto-tesol-tesl-canada-cambridge.aspx). When I did my undergrad I did a 4 year Honours BA so I have the qualifications (lacking the lengthy experience of course) to do an MA in TESOL or something like it. My long term goal is to be able to teach ESL to adults in Canada. I would go abroad again if need be but would prefer to stay in Ontario if possible.

I've been looking over the list of TESL Canada recognized programs found here http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON and I'm really just trying to figure out which one would be best (since I can't afford to move anywhere for school it would either have to be online or in the Toronto area since I can get there by bus).


The programs that have stood out the most are:
http://liberalarts.humber.ca/elc/tesl.htm#employment
http://www.senecac.on.ca/tesl/index.html
http://www.georgebrown.ca/Marketing/FTCal/access/R400.aspx
and of course the Woodsworth http://www.wdw.utoronto.ca/index.php/programs/tesol/overview/


Also, what is the difference between the Professional Certificate Standard One, Two and Three that each of the courses have beside them in the list of recognized programs,
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverin wrote:

I guess my main question really is which program would be best to take the wouldn't result in wasting my money (basically). I'm already way over my head in debt from my undergrad and I'm trying not to add too much to that.


I have a certificate that I'm sure is identical to GambateBingBangBOOM's certificate, which is a TESL Canada Level II from a university (30-45 upper level university credits). It is *EXPENSIVE*. If you are short on cash, there are other options. It is an excellent path but very expensive. Here (Vancouver), the university courses are $500 each (4 credits) and you need about 10 of them Embarassed The math speaks for itself.

iverin wrote:

My long term goal is to be able to teach ESL to adults in Canada. I would go abroad again if need be but would prefer to stay in Ontario if possible.

You would be looking at an MA in TESOL in the long term. I would recommend CELTA (cheaper and much less time than the uni certificate), build experience, then get the MA.

iverin wrote:

I've been looking over the list of TESL Canada recognized programs found here http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON and I'm really just trying to figure out which one would be best (since I can't afford to move anywhere for school it would either have to be online or in the Toronto area since I can get there by bus).

I'm in BC, not ON, but as long as it is TESL recognized, it is fine. Out here, a TESL Canada certificate is simply not enough for any good job in the market (since you are looking long term).

iverin wrote:

Also, what is the difference between the Professional Certificate Standard One, Two and Three that each of the courses have beside them in the list of recognized programs,

One and Two refers to number of hours taken (I think one is 100 hours, I know two is 250 hours, which is what I have). Level 3 is either 2500 hours or an MA, sorry, it slips my mind Shocked

As GambateBingBangBOOM already said - it is A LOT of work for just "a certificate". You might work with people who have done i-to-i or other fly by night garbage certificates, despite doing multiple 20 page research reports over 1-3 years of work. Even CELTA, in my opinion, does not compare. My certificate required one month of full time teaching AFTER 1 year of full time upper level TESL credits. If I could redo it, I probably would have gone right into a provincial teaching certificate for ESL. It was a lot of work, a lot of time, and very expensive.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverin wrote:
Thanks for the reply!

I guess my main question really is which program would be best to take the wouldn't result in wasting my money (basically). I'm already way over my head in debt from my undergrad and I'm trying not to add too much to that. Another big question is what is the difference between the certificate program and a diploma program. For example, the program at Woodsworth is 8 months long and called a certificate but this program at Greystone is 12 weeks long and called a diploma (http://www.greystonecollege.com/toronto-tesol-tesl-canada-cambridge.aspx).


The name thing is a huge problem with Ontario university and (to a lesser extent) college certificates (college ones are at least called 'postgraduate certificate', though in other countries that only takes one term, whereas in Ontario, it's two or three).

Greystone is not a 'real' college (in the sense of Humber, Seneca etc)- it's a private institution. I wouldn't go there if you want to work in Ontario or the rest of Canada, if I were you.

Quote:

When I did my undergrad I did a 4 year Honours BA so I have the qualifications (lacking the lengthy experience of course) to do an MA in TESOL or something like it. My long term goal is to be able to teach ESL to adults in Canada. I would go abroad again if need be but would prefer to stay in Ontario if possible.

I've been looking over the list of TESL Canada recognized programs found here http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON and I'm really just trying to figure out which one would be best (since I can't afford to move anywhere for school it would either have to be online or in the Toronto area since I can get there by bus).


The programs that have stood out the most are:
http://liberalarts.humber.ca/elc/tesl.htm#employment
http://www.senecac.on.ca/tesl/index.html
http://www.georgebrown.ca/Marketing/FTCal/access/R400.aspx
and of course the Woodsworth http://www.wdw.utoronto.ca/index.php/programs/tesol/overview/



If you want to be able to teach ESL in Ontario (at a Seneca or Humber kind of college [as in, 'a real one'] or at a university or through the LINC program), then you need to do a TESL Ontario approved program as opposed to a private career college kind of program (you can get jobs at universities and colleges in Ontario with masters degrees in TESOL or Applied Linguistics from universities from other countries, but you DO need real training from a recognized, real university). My advice is to go with one through either a real college or a university. When I was looking into it, I was told by the universities that you needed to do a university certificate to get into the MA, but the colleges were saying that you can do a recognized college certificate and also get in. I figured that the universities are the ones who have the masters programs and I don't want to take any risks, because if you decide to teach ESL for your career, then you will need a masters in it (unless you have a masters in something else) to teach in college or universities. One advantage of the universities over the colleges are that you can do part of your practicum in the university itself (but I guess teaching in the college is also another possibility).

http://www.teslontario.org/uploads/certification/RecognizedTESLTrainingInstitutions.pdf

http://www.teslontario.org/certification/

Yeah they're expensive, but at least OSAP is an option if you do it through a real college or university- it wouldn't be through a private institution.

One of the pitfalls in the TESOL area is that there are so many crap certificates out there pushing the idea that you just need to be able to speak your own language and that they teach you in four weeks everything you would learn in a year at a university. It's just not true, and the universities themselves are at least partially to blame for not having some sort of moniker that differentiates their programs from the crap. Brock's program used to be called a B.Ed in TESOL. They stopped that (maybe the Ontario College of Teachers got all uppity about it) though they still have B.Ed in Adult Education and Adult Native Education that don't lead to a k-12 designation. In other countries, they call them M.Ed / MA TESOL etc. But not in Ontario. I personally feel like they should just become more uniform with other countries and call it an MA, or at least call it by the British name for a B.Ed (to get around any potential Ontario College of Teachers issues) by calling it a PGCE or a PGDE. They can't possibly be so stupid as to not realize that a LOT of people who do that kind of program will go overseas to teach, and so the marketability of the education (for which the name itself is important [which is why these private providers call their training 'dilploma'- something that can refer simply to the piece of paper itself as separate from the actual education]) and when a job says you need a masters degree in TESOL or Applied Linguistics, people from Ontario are blocked because potential employers read 'certificate' and think, 'next!' before reading further.

ETA
UofT's is called a 'Certificate' [they recently changed it from TESL to TESOL to reflect actual practice--> meaning they know people go overseas to teach and the training is equally useful for overseas as in-country, though they didn't change the name of the qualification to something that would be useful in describing what it actually is to people outside of Ontario] but in their M.Ed (through OISIE) they describe it as a pre-teacher education program equivalent to a B.Ed (which is obviously a much more marketable term).
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iverin



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys! It sure gives you a lot to think about.

So would staying with my original plan of going to the UofT's Woodsworth program be sufficient enough to get a job here in Canada? I plan in the long run to apply to Brock for the senior student B.Ed (the middle-high school) one I just don't have the money to do that right now. I can probably get OSAP for the UofT program and then use some saved money and not be too in the red, whereas doing Teacher's College right away adds a huge amount to my already large loan amount. I want to eventually teach ESL English and History classes in High School but I would also be just as happy teaching ESL to Adults through a program like LINC (I tutor a student through the LINC program at the present time).
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the tuition for the programs will be about the same, I think, so I'm guessing Brock is so much more because you will live at home while going to UofT (but not if you're at Brock and live in the Toronto area, of course).

UofT, York etc are definitely enough to get a job in Canada- the way they are marketed often implies that that's their main purpose, though the pay for the jobs may be pretty low.

If you apply, you will have to do an interview to get in, and so you can ask about hiring rates of graduates within Canada then.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Are there any "good" online TESOL programs? Reply with quote

iverin wrote:
I've been planning on applying to the TESOL program at Woodsworth College at the University of Toronto (http://www.wdw.utoronto.ca/index.php/programs/tesol/overview/)

Someone I know mentioned taking an online TESOL program but I didn't catch the name of it. Doing the program in Toronto would mean losing a lot of work hours, busing two hours a day and paying $400 a month for said bus pass. If there were online programs where the end certificate would have the same qualifications as the in-person one I would really like to look into it. Any information about online TESOL programs would be greatly appreciated. (I already have in-class experience having taught briefly for 2 months in Japan and I've been tutoring with my local library since July)
If you can take the time to do the on-site 20-hour teaching practicum (10 each of you observing teachers and you teaching real ESL students) Coventry House International (which does an on-site Trinity course) also does an online course. Go to http://www.ontesol.ca. If you have a Canadian four-year degree (or a degree from another country that has been assessed by a Canadian degree assessment service like the one at University of Toronto), the ONTESOL certificate will also get you a TESL Canada certificate.
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iverin



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the info.

Chancellor, would that online tesol be just as adequate as the UofT Woodsworth program? I think I've pretty much decided on that UofT one or an equivalent online one if I can find one. An online one would allow me to keep working full time and get the certificate, whereas the UofT one means I have to drop down to working weekends only and still somehow manage to have the money to get to and from school and the time to do the assignments. I have no objections to doing inclass, it would just be amazing time and money wise if I could do an online one that would result in something just as marketable as the UofT program.

Added: I was just reading over the ontesol site and the 250 hour + practicum course sounds to me (in a brief read) pretty close to what is offered in the 8 month in-class courses. Of course there's no class time but there are tutors to help and the added 20 hours practicum at the end gets you Cert (TM) TESOL (Level 3) / Accredited Teacher and Professional Certificate � Standard 2. I believe that would be good enough to work in Canada, correct?

It's not that I'm against taking an in-class course it's just that I can take the full 250 hour+ practicum course for what it would cost me for 4 bus passes to an in-class program, discounting the added costs for tuition and books etc and I would be able to stay teaching full time.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverin wrote:

Added: I was just reading over the ontesol site and the 250 hour + practicum course sounds to me (in a brief read) pretty close to what is offered in the 8 month in-class courses. Of course there's no class time but there are tutors to help and the added 20 hours practicum at the end gets you Cert (TM) TESOL (Level 3) / Accredited Teacher and Professional Certificate � Standard 2. I believe that would be good enough to work in Canada, correct?


According to TESL Canada website:

Coventry House International
ONTESOL.COM on-line Prog/August 2006- 2011
http://www.ontesol.com/

This program is eligible for Professional Certificate Standard Two.
This institution offers a stand-alone practicum. This program was eligible for Professional Certificate Standard One from 2003-2006

http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON


***

Standard One is good enough to work in Canada, anything above that is a bonus. If it is okay by TESL Canada, then you are good to go.
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iverin



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:

According to TESL Canada website:

Coventry House International
ONTESOL.COM on-line Prog/August 2006- 2011
http://www.ontesol.com/

This program is eligible for Professional Certificate Standard Two.
This institution offers a stand-alone practicum. This program was eligible for Professional Certificate Standard One from 2003-2006

http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON


***

Standard One is good enough to work in Canada, anything above that is a bonus. If it is okay by TESL Canada, then you are good to go.


That really would be optimum. If this online one gives the me same accreditation as the 8 month UofT one it would save me about $6000 in the long run and allow me to work full time.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverin wrote:
santi84 wrote:

According to TESL Canada website:

Coventry House International
ONTESOL.COM on-line Prog/August 2006- 2011
http://www.ontesol.com/

This program is eligible for Professional Certificate Standard Two.
This institution offers a stand-alone practicum. This program was eligible for Professional Certificate Standard One from 2003-2006

http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON


***

Standard One is good enough to work in Canada, anything above that is a bonus. If it is okay by TESL Canada, then you are good to go.


That really would be optimum. If this online one gives the me same accreditation as the 8 month UofT one it would save me about $6000 in the long run and allow me to work full time.


I'm a big fan of legit online education myself. If ONTESOL is level two (and it is), I would go with that. Getting a permanent (good) job in Canada is really a matter of having an MA or lots of experience, so your basic TESL certificate is just a stepping stone and you would want to do it at a reduced expense.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverin wrote:
Thanks again for the info.

Chancellor, would that online tesol be just as adequate as the UofT Woodsworth program? I think I've pretty much decided on that UofT one or an equivalent online one if I can find one. An online one would allow me to keep working full time and get the certificate, whereas the UofT one means I have to drop down to working weekends only and still somehow manage to have the money to get to and from school and the time to do the assignments. I have no objections to doing inclass, it would just be amazing time and money wise if I could do an online one that would result in something just as marketable as the UofT program.
I'm not really sure one can compare an entry-level TEFL certificate (whether CELTA, Trinity, the one I suggested, or something else) with what appears to be a graduate certificate (in between a bachelor's degree and a master's degree).

Quote:
Added: I was just reading over the ontesol site and the 250 hour + practicum course sounds to me (in a brief read) pretty close to what is offered in the 8 month in-class courses. Of course there's no class time but there are tutors to help and the added 20 hours practicum at the end gets you Cert (TM) TESOL (Level 3) / Accredited Teacher and Professional Certificate � Standard 2. I believe that would be good enough to work in Canada, correct?
It's a Level 2 TESL Canada certificate and you also have to have a Canadian or Canadian-assessed four-year degree to get it. One presumes that having a TESL Canada certificate would qualify you for TESL employment in Canada.

Quote:
It's not that I'm against taking an in-class course it's just that I can take the full 250 hour+ practicum course for what it would cost me for 4 bus passes to an in-class program, discounting the added costs for tuition and books etc and I would be able to stay teaching full time.
Yeah, I can imagine that taking four buses can be a pain in the neck. Coventry House International is on Bay Street near University of Toronto.
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