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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: comparing DELTA to CELTA |
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| justflyingin wrote: |
Hello,
Anyway, I've long been interested in advanced training. I have a MEd and a BS (education)--one in Elem. Ed and one in Home Ec/Science Education. I didn't have any ESL courses, but have a reasonably good background in English.
I've been looking at the possibility of further training. After reading in various places, I've become aware of the DELTA and the CELTA. The CELTA is offered here in Warsaw in the summer and also every Sat. during the school year (20 Saturdays). The Delta appears to be much more involved and quite a bit more expensive.
I thought I had wanted to get the CELTA training, but after reading some opinions about it, it sounds like it might be pretty basic for me since I do have two education degrees.
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In a nutshell, as already stated really ... the DELTA is the next stage up from the CELTA, a longer course. However, I would suggest looking at doing the CELTA first, if you do decide to take any EFL qualification. In fairness, you may not be able to do a DELTA, unless you hold a CELTA.
I will say first ... you are waaay better qualified than I am, BUT ... as you concede yourself, you dont have EFL qualifications (or training?). Because of that ... you may even find the CELTA to be difficult.
Im not in any way suggesting you are not academically capable, but have a string of qualifications that are not EFL related, may mean that your skills set doesnt match the requirements for either CELTA or DELTA qualifications.
I (and I suspect many other FTs) have worked with qualified and experienced teachers before ... who hold MA or QTS/PGCE qualifications in teaching a subject ... but this often (not always, but often) differs from teaching English to non-native speakers. In my experience, highly qualified teachers do not always make good language teachers without EFL specific training.
As I said initially ... you are better qualified than I am in terms of academic acheivement, but this education is in teaching subjects to native speakers, which is a different ball game to teaching ESL / EFL. Dont underestimate the CELTA (or equivalent) as the methodology may be very different to how you work at the moment. It DOES rank below your other qualifications from an academic viewpoint, but this doesnt mean it will be easy for you, or will have no value to you as an EFL teacher.
I have been working with a student organisation in the UK since around Easter, and have worked with a lot of teachers, some EFL qualified, some have PGCE or QTS status as teachers within the UK. Almost without fail, the PGCE teachers are less effective than the CELTA/Trinity qualified ones!
Again, this is my experience, but on my Trinity course, the UK teachers who had been teaching in state schools for a long time were the ones who struggled with the EFL methodology. One actually failed the course!
This doesnt mean they are any less able, but their skill set is very different. Teaching subjects to native speakers IS different ... and on that basis I would suggest even an entry level EFL qualification will prove to be of some benefit to you. |
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justflyingin
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the opinions about the CELTA and DELTA.
I'd like to take the CELTA. I just want to get it over with in a month, so the summer course would be the one for me. 
I don't think I'd get any increase in pay, thus, it is hard to be motivated.
I do believe, however, it would give me a core of knowledge that I don't have right now. I am very aware that teaching native speakers a course they already know is quite different from nonnative speakers.
My children have attended Polish public schools. I know that the way they are learning English, for example, (a cake course for them) is not at all as it would be if they were in the states in elementary school taking English. |
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sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Good choice. Celta shows you what you should basically be doing in an ESL classroom. Honestly, the industry here in Poland doesn't really require or reward you more for more qualifications. If you are a good teacher, it might. Anyway I don't really see what a few more months of ESL training would do for someone who has many years of experience and at least a modicum of reflection about their classroom methods. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| sparks wrote: |
| Good choice. Celta shows you what you should basically be doing in an ESL classroom. Honestly, the industry here in Poland doesn't really require or reward you more for more qualifications. If you are a good teacher, it might. Anyway I don't really see what a few more months of ESL training would do for someone who has many years of experience and at least a modicum of reflection about their classroom methods. |
As nickpellatt wrote, teaching a language is fundamentally different from teaching other subjects. Teaching EFL, you're not trying to explain grammar like you would a chemical reaction in a science class - you don't want them to know the rules. You want to enable the students to communicate in the language and use te rules.
Teaching EFL may feel strange to someone who has a background teaching other subjects. You will find that you have to 'unlearn' some of the techniques that made you a good science teacher and adopt new methods. But this is why the CELTA course would be so very useful to the OP. It will show the OP a better way to teach EFL.
If you put forth the effort, the CELTA will make you a more effective EFL teacher, teaching background or not. |
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roywebcafe
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have 4 years Pre-CELTA experience and now after finishing the course I am told by employers in Poland that they want someone with at least six months Post CELTA experience!!! My first qualification was an online TEFL certifciate - I took the CELTA to improve my chances seems the opposite has happened!!
Bloody annoying
| Blasphemer wrote: |
I've found CELTA to be a really good leverage tool in negotiations. It was a super intensive crash course, I've had some seasoned teachers leave in tears [I did the intensive four week course however].
I think it's a pretty good thing for anyone - new and experienced teachers alike. I was lucky enough to complete my CELTA in NYC where we had the chance to test our newly acquired skills in a seriously multi national classroom environment.
Another great thing about CELTA - you are being taught by very experienced staff with deep understanding and great insight into the EFL world.
Over all I must say that it was an amazing experience, worth every penny. I know that this probably sounds like a sells pitch, but that's how I feel about it.
You do have to take CELTA with a grain of salt, the actual classroom experience in real life vastly differs from the CELTA classroom, but if you can get through that... everything else is simple.
One last thing... the overall picture of a native speaker in Poland is not a pretty one, usually it's tainted by people who don't even know basic grammar... with CELTA behind your belt, you are showing your future future employers that - 1. you are serious about the job. 2. you KNOW English and not just speak it with a perfect regional accent. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: haha |
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| Welcome to the world of EFL! Expensive qualifications that don't mean jack in half the world. |
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justflyingin
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: haha |
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| sharter wrote: |
| Welcome to the world of EFL! Expensive qualifications that don't mean jack in half the world. |
This is why I've not forked out the 5K zl for the CELTA. I've been able to stay busier than I want to without it. I do see a wealth of information in the inside of the teacher's editions of various books.  |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: erm |
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The CELTA is actually the only one worth doing. That and about 5 years experience is what you need to be pretty good.
The MA, while academically interesting is quite pointless and the DELTA is a bit rigid in its format and approach, but popular with IH and the other fast food outlets.
If you're staying in Poland you need none of the above. Do a CELTA and do it for yourself as it's very practical.
Over 15 years, I've learnt more from colleagues and self-study than any of the courses I've done.
Visa requirements may change in the future, you never know. |
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chromium
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| scottie1113 wrote: |
I agree with Khrystene. My frfiends who have DELTA have told me that it did very little to enhance their teaching skills and they got it because they were aiming for a position as a DOS.
CELTA will enable you to teach at more schools because most of the better ones require it and combined with your experience should more doors for you. |
I would have to disagree, with respect.
The sole aim of the DELTA is to make better teachers, not just to have the candidates jump through hoops to pass a Cambridge exam. |
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chromium
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My frfiends who have DELTA have told me that it did very little to enhance their teaching skills and they got it because they were aiming for a position as a DOS. |
i can guarantee DOS's in Poland with a DELTA are few and far between. it comes down to experience in the industry, playing the political game, having cash to open your own school, who you know, etc. etc. etc. |
That is not exactly true. The last 3 DOS's I've had have the DELTA, all in Poland. |
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chromium
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Khrystene wrote: |
| spiral78 wrote: |
CELTA is a 30-day newbie - level certification.
DELTA is a step up from this - beyond the basics. Some UK MA TESL/TEFL programs will give credits for the DELTA towards an MA.
You'd probably benefit more from a DELTA, I guess. It would certainly enhance your classroom skills, and the qual can also lead to teacher training positions and DOS jobs, in some cases. |
DELTA is actually focussed at those who would like to be directors of schools, not just teachers. If you want to teach, the CELTA is sufficient (even TESL/TEFL or occasionally nothing will do!). |
That may have been true 5-8 years ago. But, the fact is that teaching English is now a competitive business, both for language schools and prospective teachers. Having the DELTA simply means that that person has more training, and any school is going to hire a new teacher who has a DELTA over the thousands of applicants who have a CELTA. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| chromium wrote: |
That may have been true 5-8 years ago. But, the fact is that teaching English is now a competitive business, both for language schools and prospective teachers. Having the DELTA simply means that that person has more training, and any school is going to hire a new teacher who has a DELTA over the thousands of applicants who have a CELTA. |
Yea, but how much do these jobs in language schools pay DELTA- qualified teachers? Enough to recoup the cost of doing the DELTA? I doubt it.
It will take a long, long time to recoup the cost of doing a DELTA on a language school salary. My schools offers something like a whopping 5 zloty more an hour to DELTA-qualified teachers. Whoopie! 
A CELTA is more than sufficient for teaching English in Poland at present. The only reasons for doing DELTA are:
1) (personal) to be the best teacher you can possibly be
2) (personal/professional) to leave Poland for a country with higher requirements for teachers
3) (professional) to move up the ranks and become a DoS, or similar managerial/admin position.
Ironic how DELTA, a qulaification designed to increase your abilities in the classroom, actually ends up sticking you out in an office to create time-tables, arrange cover lessons and other admin stuff. |
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chromium
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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It seems that most of the the people posting about the DELTA have no actual experience with having done it. That is unfortunate for the other people who are asking for advice.
I'm not sure why someone who has not done the DELTA would tell others what it is like or what is stressed in the input sessions.
First of all, the main point that is stressed while doing the DELTA is to have your students' level and aim in mind.
Another thing that is helpful is to have whatever you do in class relate to their everyday activity.
Another thing that we learned is to have a lesson on intonation and the stress patterns used in normal English.
Another thing you'll learn in the DELTA is how to teach connected speech, which is how all of the native speakers talk.
For the others who say the DELTA is only for DOS's, in your CELTA did you learn about weak forms, which we use all the time?
I may be missing something, but in the CELTA., were you able to teach the difference between the present perfect and past simple?
Finally, if there is a job opening anywhere, who do you think will get the job? someone with a CELTA or someone with a DELTA?
In my brief 5 years of teaching, what I have found is that many of the top teaching jobs are asking for a DELTA minimum.
What I say is from my own experience, and the ones out there who have an MA in TESOL or any other Master's degree in Linguistics,
you know much more than I do. |
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chromium
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| So, MasterShake, are you sad that you are spending the money to do the DELTA? Albeit, the extra money is not great, but it is something |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| chromium wrote: |
| So, MasterShake, are you sad that you are spending the money to do the DELTA? Albeit, the extra money is not great, but it is something |
I'm doing it because it will make me a better teacher. But it would be nice to be given a bit more financial support and incentive to get it.
chromium, you have to learn about weak forms, conditionals, perfect aspect, etc. etc. during your first year of teaching anyway. I remember how it used to take me forever to plan lessons because I had to learn all that stuff before I could teach it.
DELTA is more about exploring chosen skills/grammar topcs, refining your techniques in the classroom, and learning how to set and achieve lesson aims. |
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