Job Discussion Forums

[bharrell]

Granted, I am a professional worrier. I have a job offer from a good University in Chongqing and I got my Z visa last week. I am supposed to be there in two weeks. What could go wrong in this scenario? I have been told that a Z Visa requires to school to hire me, provided I haven't lied about my qualifications and pass the physical, and have the proper documents. I don't look like Quasimodo or scare little children (except on purpose). Is this a safe situation or what?

[tomstone]

Did they pay for the visa?

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

sounds safe to me. you might want to look into your worrying. nerves of steel are sometimes required in this country.

[bharrell]

I worry, but usually end up saying eff it and going forward. Action seems to shut up the mental chatter.

[LanGuTou]

Getting the invitation letter for a 'z' visa requires a fair amount of administration and expense on the part of the university. Why would they do this if they did not intend to employ you? Aside from that, issuing invitation letters to teachers you don't intend to employ would not lead to a harmonious existence with SAFEA and various Chinese regulatory authorities. I would suggest that your worries are unfounded!

[Mr. Ed]

[bharrell]

[Mr. Ed]

"Personal experience" is a very broad term and includes personal observations? Yes?

"You sound like you speak from personal experience, Mr. Ed" I have a great deal of personal experience watching many crash and burn.

"Here is the bottom-line in a nutshell: If you do not know and completely trust the source, your safest and most secure option is to enter China with a Z-visa because that Z-visa commits the school to providing you with a job upon arrival." from the Guide. Unfortunately this is simply not true.

A young man arrived on a Z visa and had not lied about anything. Unfortunately the Chinese did not fully understand the extra burden an overweight autistic person would create. He was on the next plane home.

If your school refuses to employ you upon arrival be sure to quote the middlekingdomlife article to them and insist. lol

[bharrell]

Mr. Ed:
Well thanks for the providing the worst case scenario. Are you making a prediction? Maybe a wager is in order?
I read some of your posts and frankly don't think you had anything constructive to add to any of them. I don't know what you are like in person, but on the board you come across like a jerk. So, I will rely on others opinions and ignore yours. My take on this is that if you can make it there, it can't be that hard.

[tomstone]

Edit. Check PM

[Mr. Ed]

Yes Alice, you are right, of course. There is a yellow brick road in China, bring Toto with you.

No Chinese school would dare to refuse you a job upon arrival because you have a Z visa and they know that if they mess around with you they will have extreme difficulty should you go to the PSB, provincial FAO or the local court. They fully understand that everyone will side with the poor put upon foreigner. Oh the trouble you could cause them.

Yes that Z visa is a GUARANTEE. You can take that to the bank.

Please forgive me for suggesting otherwise. What do I know, I am new here.

[Mr. Ed]

From the same Chapter of the GUIDE -

Aside from being the only legal way to work in China in most provinces (in that most will not convert a tourist into a work visa), it must be stated that entering China with a Z-visa in no way guarantees that all the terms of your contract will be honored or that you will necessarily be treated well and with respect. In fact, it doesn�t even guarantee that you will have a job for the entire duration of your contract because if the employer is truly unhappy with your teaching performance, the owners or administrators can easily find a way to prematurely terminate your employment.

Most public school and university contract addendums stipulate a probation period of three to six months precisely for this reason and whether the termination was justified or not, it's not as if you have the option of hiring an attorney to sue for breach of contract in civil court. As a practical matter, employment contracts in China protect the employer, not the foreign employee. This is why we continuously stress and overemphasize how important it is to choose your first employer in China as carefully and wisely as possible.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

bharrell, check your PM for some solid advice.

[Jayray]

The school probably wouldn't refuse to employ you after you arrive because the school will want to fully execute the contract (both parties sign) as soon as possible to lock you into an agreement. As Mr. Ed pointed out, there's zero guarantee that the school will honor its commitment to you. Reasons for termination of the contract may not even be work-related. In fact, there may not be any legitimate reason given for your termination.

After you arrive at your school, you may do a perfectly good job and be popular with the students and foreign languages department. If you have an idiot for an FAO, anything can happen.

I wouldn't sweat any such scenarios. Just go with an open mind, do a good job, become popular with your students and foreign languages department, try to stay on friendly terms with your FAO (it is not always possible), and watch your back. Starting a job in China isn't much different from starting a job at home, except that if you're dismissed, it may be difficult to find another job quickly, and instead of driving home, you'll have to fly several thousands of miles to the comfort of familiar surroundings.

As someone stated previously, it is very important that one choose his school very very carefully. I used very poor judgment in choosing my last school and i got burned. This time around, I did my homework, and got reports from sane people who actually work at the school. I'll be taking over for an acquaintance who has taught at my new school school for eight years.

[Chris_Crossley]

I did return to China on a Z-visa in December '03, yet, within just half a month, the school in Shanghai and I parted company and I headed back to the town where I had worked for 2 years before I went back to England in the somewhat naive hope that I could actually get a decent teaching job but instead survived on dole money.

Within a month of returning to that town, I did manage to get a job at a government-run primary school, so matters turned out fine, after all, despite that rather unpleasant experience in Shanghai.

Hence, a Z-visa certainly is no guarantee that you will keep your job, but what it does do is authorise you to work for somebody. Once matters have been settled, the Z-visa is cancelled in favour of a foreign expert certificate and foreign residence permit, both issued by the PSB.

Even if you then do not keep your job for whatever reason, the fact that you have a valid (i.e., not yet expired) residence permit should mean that you should not have to leave the country in order to return and get another job with a brand-new Z-visa in your passport.