Job Discussion Forums

dmaxon · Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 7

Here's the question: If you have no experience, want to START teaching ESL, and you have a uni degree and are certified (CELTA or comparable), is Vietnam the best place to start working by the following criteria - biggest difference (in US dollars) between cost of living and pay? If not, what is the best place? Discuss.

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

Aren't you interested in knowing about the students, their interest in education? "Best place" is defined by money? Discuss.

bje · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

good question, I think the money in Nam is made by people who are long termers. As far as coming to Nam and finding yourself in the money then I would have to say no. To make decent money here takes an understanding of the place and how it works. Money is definitly here to be made, but 'good' money (ESL standard that is) $2500/$3000 + / month takes time. In regards to cost of living and salary I rekon if your banking $1000 / month into your savings, well... thats pretty good.
I would never work ESL like that in Nam again bec I dont think thats how Nam is supposed to be lived. So stressful and not enough time for long siestas and early knock offs for beers with the boss.
I've tossed around with the UAE idea a few times, but never committed as they wouldn't fly my wife at the same time as myself.

Green Acres · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 260

No. Absolutely not. Somebody will eat you up and spit you out, if not the students themselves. Vietnam is a place for seasoned pros with much experience. You should go to work for a factory school in Japan. The pay is alright, the experience will help you land a job elsewhere, and Japan is a fun place to live and learn.

lucreziaborgia · Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 177

half moon · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 49

lucreziaborgia · Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 177

I think people should be concentrating on what is happening here regarding work requirements. The rest is moot if you can't work here legally because you're unable to or don't fulfill these requirements. Or, your employer doesn't take you seriously enough to do the paperwork.

varbuut · Joined: 07 Feb 2010 Posts: 11

bailey73 · Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 7

Green Acres · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 260

To begin a career in ESL, this is not the place to make money or find gainful employment. One should go to a place that pays well and takes care of their teaching staff while providing assistance in the field. Only teachers with much experience are able to make a living in Vietnam -- ask anyone who has lived here a long time and they will tell you the same thing, especially with all the changes to visa/wp rules.

Please come, however, since the addition of another 100 or so teachers to the area will surely drop wages and hours of your colleagues, and may even allow some more scrupulous school bosses to manipulate you further. Another 1000 teachers can arrive into Japan or Korea and it won't change a thing.

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

I know dozens of new teachers who found that they were able to save money while living well and teaching in supportive, fulfilling environments. DOZENS.

BenE · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 321

sssssh Inky don't tell them that. They'll all want to come here Wink

Vietnam (and Hanoi in my experience) can work both ways.

saigondoc · Joined: 14 Feb 2010 Posts: 14

I have been living and teaching English in Vietnam for many years. My experience is that Vietnam is a great place for new and experienced teachers.

The students are some of the best in the world. Vietnamese students rarely if ever cause a teacher to lose face. Therefore, it is a positive place for new teachers who are concerned about a lack of knowledge or experience.

The pay in Vietnam is very good compared to other countries in the region and around the world. Should probably exclude the Middle East. However, the days of making large amounts of money in that region are over. Most of my friends who are teachers are happy concerning their jobs, standard of living and have saved lots of money. The teachers I know have salaries between USD2000-3000 per month and save between
USD 500-2000 per month. I have been living in Vietnam for a long time and have over USD150,000 in the bank to show for it. I also go out five nights a week.

The idea that a lot of teachers are leaving Vietnam is nonsense. MOD EDIT

If you are a qualified teacher, interested in another culture, have a passion for teaching, Vietnam is a great place for teaching. In addition, if you are an experienced and a qualified EFL teacher, there are many opportunities in Vietnam.

MOD EDIT

Wishing all of you a Prosperous Year of the Tiger

Green Acres · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 260

There is definitely some disagreement as to what is Vietnam and what was vietnam. The country is changing, and rapidly.

There was a time when Vietnamese students, in general, where a great bunch on the whole. This attitude is changing, however, and anyone who has been teaching over a long period in the region can attest to this. Affluence has brought with it an attitude that the student in above the teacher in all things and this has created disastrous results which are still magnifying as I write this. Old values concerning education and teachers are being disgarded, and coupled with the business model of the modern ESL school, the combination of forces can be very difficult to deal with if you have no experience. Students are customers, and they are always right. As a new teacher, breaking in can be difficult and things can go wrong for you very easily. This is one of the reasons that few schools recruit teachers and give them long contracts. They like the relationship that they enjoy with the ability to change teachers whenever the customer requests (which is frequent).

I hate using broad strokes, however, consider these ideas. There are many reasons for students to become more proactive than they were, which is not entirely bad. The biggest problem is that educational management does not know how to deal with proactive students, and does not necessarily respect teachers -- the lowest on the pecking order would be the novice recruit fresh out of CELTA charm school, who may also be the youngest. Most students have become proactive in response to traditional teaching methods, which normally pushes them into accepting the more modern ESL classroom methods -- but not entirely. Anyway, it's a mixed bag and it really depends on what age student you teach and what school you work for.

I have always had friends come into town to teach for 3-6 months as they were on their world travels. Finding them work was sometimes difficult since they were either not qualified, or didn't look qualified. Students loved them, however, so it always worked and the employers still respect my judgement about these matters. It took some time to develop these types of relationships, so realise that in the beginning it could be very difficult with some problems, but then it could get better, especially if you are dedicated to your profession and have a good heart.

There are easier places to break into the profession of teaching ESL -- especially at this time. It doesn't mean that someone cannot do it here, as the world is what you make it. Do not think, however, that the old vietnam is the new one. Students really are losing their manners and common decency as a whole, and it makes the job that much more difficult. Examine the following link:

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/reports/20 ... am-890393/

The interesting thing about this article is that the deteriorating behavoir of the average Vietnamese student is acknowledged -- though the cause of that is speculative. The article blames international schools, which only the wealthy can afford -- the same sector of the economy that pays for ESL lessons.