Job Discussion Forums

[uruguay1]

Is it possible to get a work permit in order to teach at home? I know that employers are responsible, but I will not have an employer. The police told me to stop because I was using a hotel room. They never even asked about a work perrmit or how I obtained one year business visas. But those types of visas may not always be there, so i need to operate as legally as possible. Thanks in advance.

[saigondoc]

The work permit has nothing to do with teaching students in your home or hotel room.

I have taught students in my house and know many other teachers who teach private students. I believe it may be illegal to teach students in your own home. However, it depends on where you live. The people who have the power to enforce this is the local police. If you are only teaching one-to-one it will probably not be a problem. However, the local police will find out sooner or later, there are no secrets in Vietnam. I suspect you had a problem because you are teaching out of a hotel not a house. The best way to deal with this issue is to go to the local police and tell them that you want to help students develop their English skills and in fact would be more than happy to teach their children at a reduced price. If you are not interested in renting a house and only want to do this on a short-term basis out of a hotel room, you will have a problem. I see no problem with the police preventing tourists/teachers from teaching students in their hotel room since this is an excellent way to take advantage of certain students-read between the lines and you should understand.

[uruguay1]

I do intend to rent a house, and I am mainly concerned about a work permit due to apparent visa problems without one. Although I was able to get visas through a friend, but I worry this may not always be possible. I wish to teach/tutor at home due to the fact I am paraplegic and most schools in Vietnam are not accessible. Thanks for the advice it is very helpful.

[mark_in_saigon]

My comments here may be more correctly placed in one of the visa/wp threads, forgive me if they are off topic, but I think they do relate generally.

My understanding it is illegal to work for income without a wp, period. That is what I have been told by people who are hiring managers here. Correct me if I am wrong, folks. I think there are endless possibilities to teach for free, and maintain legal visa status in that manner. Personally, I would be very reluctant to take any income without a wp, as I would not want to endanger my legal status, now or in the future. There is much uncertainty surrounding the visa/wp/foreign influence issues. I would err on the side of caution on these issues.

It is my personal opinion that the new enforcement is based on

1- economic self interests, trying to keep the income in the hands of their own people.

2 - income related, trying to increase tax revenue and fee revenue from the foreigners who profit from working here. Not unlike western nations constantly trying to find new revenue sources as the economy stumbles along.

3 - socially driven, trying to push out the less positive (even criminal) influences from the foreign community. This point is not mostly about western teachers, in my opinion, but it may be in some cases.

One can argue with these opinions, or take offense. Fine. These are just my opinions based on my readings and conversations with my sources. Personally, I do not think that these goals are without merit, and it is their country. I am just happy to be here, the costs are certainly not huge to my overall profile. Every day I learn new lessons about fitting in and acceptance, most of those lessons are learned driving. Thank god they are not landing 747's on the highways. Yet. I don't think my super cub could outrun a 747, though it runs pretty good.

[inky]

Well said, very good summary of the overall situation.

[celloleslie]

Inky, I see that you are in Hanoi and many of the others who posted on this thread are in Saigon; do you imagine there is a big difference between the two cities in regard to the enforcement of laws about teaching (even privately) without a permit? I'm wondering, too, if things ever happen on a barter system; eg I'll teach your family if you'll provide me a place to stay... Does anyone know of any instances of this type of exchange, where no money changes hands?
One more question: what is the worst that can happen to you if you are found to be tutoring locals without a work permit? Are you deported, never to be allowed to return? Chastised? Charged a fee?
Thanks for any information or insight.

[Danaa]

[mark_in_saigon]

It is not my intention to say what you are doing is morally wrong, or anything like that. I am a conservative man, and try to be very careful in my business and financial life. I do take financial risks. My desire is to be here very long term, and so I personally will not break the laws in order to scoop up cash. I can live here without income, though I am always happy to have more. I am very sympathetic to the situation you and many others are in. I do not know what the answer will be, long term. If I have to guess, my guess is that they are happy to have us spending money, but I think this is about money and access. They want the money, and they want control of who is in the country. Sometimes I wish my country would control itself too. My country thought that it was a good financial decision to have millions of people working there illegally, without considering the long term ramifications. Personally, I am not comfortable or willing to work illegally like that, but millions are there, and it seems many are here also. I wish you all the best, and hope it all works out.

[Sgn Boy II]

The most important success factor to Vietnam's economic and social success (and thus domestic political success) in the near future is FDI (foreign direct investment). No one is trying to chase away foreigners. Enforcement of the immigration laws is a sign of a maturing government. There will be more foreigners living here next year than this year. And so on. With the WTO membership in full-swing this year, lots of changes are to come for Vietnam (good/bad/indifferent).

Working from home as a private tutor does not entitle one to a work permit. Obviously a business needs to be set up that complies with existing domestic statues, tax/employment laws, etc.

People should stop complaining about this. If you are working here legally, then you can get a WP. If you are working part-time for a couple of random language schools without a WP, then you probably are breaking the law. Don't blame the schools. Would you go to work in your own country if the employer said, "You and I are going to knowing break federal and local laws."? These schools also need to adapt to the changes and those who accept employment at such schools are just enabling the process of illegal immigration. WP's with the proper supporting documentation take about 5-10 days to process. Never longer.

If you cannot find legal work, don't accept illegal work. Period.

If you want to open a business, learn the laws and do so. There are some protected industries under the WTO agreement and VN can still regulate locally run business. That is their sovereign right.

Enough already.

[mark_in_saigon]

Each of us can decide if we have said enough, already, or wants to say, or ask, or read more. To me, it is one of the most important issues we face, and I welcome the opportunity to read more views. If a poster is tired of stating his views, fine, please let others continue to add value to this site on this important issue. None of us can say we have made the definitive statement and the issue is now revealed and explained in its entirety.

With reference to the statement about more foreigners being here next year than this year, I think that is a very difficult call to make. If one means "educated, western, even legally working" foreigners, that is one thing. However, I believe the government is also addressing the issue of less educated, asian, illegally working foreigners as well, which is a much bigger group. If considering ALL foreigners, I suspect there may be less than more next year, as I think that segment may be the larger concern to them. I have heard from many sources that certain nationalities are of specific concern, for various reasons. It is my opinion that western teachers are not the primary focus, but are not being specifically exempted from the enforcement either.

[Danaa]

[Sgn Boy II]

Agreed.
"Enough already" was a bit harsh.

Still, I don't think that anyone can make statements about illegal Chinese laborers (for instance) working in VN and whether the volume of such people would increase or decrease. That is another topic entirely (note - such workers may take advantage of lapses in border security and never really have to deal with visa renewals, WP's, etc. or are "sponsored" through companies that have an understanding with the central government that the use of particular laborers is beneficial for one reason or another - of course such opinions/support/understandings can change with wind...either way, not at the heart of this discussion).

My comment was meant a general thought suggesting that foreigners are certainly more than welcome here in VN (as Mark mentioned, particularly those with a particular skill or education who more likely to be regular readers/contributers to a forum such as this).

Thanks for the chance to clarify.

[Sgn Boy II]

[Danaa]

[Sgn Boy II]

MOD EDIT

I am not Vietnamese, yet I still believe that obeying local laws (however difficult they may be to comply with) is important. Just my two cents.

I accept your opinion that demand supersedes regulation. Perhaps in economic theory, this is true. Perhaps is a true market economy this is true. However, in my humble opinion, we live in Vietnam...not in some theory or free market economy and local statues should prevail.

But if you are right, VN will soon become the next Hong Kong with an open free-market economy (for better or worse)...letting supply/demand and economics drive issues of immigration and adherence/enforcement/evolution of domestic laws/policies. Time will tell and we can each choose how to make our own decisions as time passes. Just sharing my thoughts and advice to others who are asking.

SB2