Job Discussion Forums

eihpos · Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Posts: 331

Hi,

I have a pretty decent job offer from a university but one thing is holding me back: class size. Most of my experience has been in language schools with pretty small classes. I had one experience in the UAE with a class of 40 unruly teens and I think it scarred me for life! Well, maybe not quite but it wasn't fun.
I know that university students would be alot different but I would like to hear from anyone who is teaching or has taught in a uni over there - Are there any problems with 'crowd control'? What kinds of activities work well?

Any advice would be great!

tomstone · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 293

Yes, my classes consist of about 40-45 students and yes, it's a problem. I tell them that I expect them to listen, I stress over and over how important listening is, then I start threatening to take points off of their grades if they don't cool it. Then I take the worst offenders aside and tell them they are in danger of failing. They usually respond to the "F" (that means "failing"!) word. One student last term decided to show off for the other students and defy the foreign teacher. I gave him several chances to amend his behavior, he didn't, I went to the head of the department, had him removed from the class and gave him a final grade of zero. Once that got around on the student grapevine, it was smooth sailing. It's not necessary to throw your weight around, but they need to know who's in charge.

randyj · Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:50 am Post subject:

In China's better universities, my experience for an oral English class has been sizes averaging about thirty students. Discipline is not really a problem in this venue. Gentle chiding usually gets their attention. Contrast this with my current situation, sixteen classes of second-year high school students, sizes ranging from 42 to 58. A whip and a chair would be suitable in the latter. It's like herding cats.
In student comments for the last semester, some urged me to become more strict. For me, it's a toss-up. I can devote more effort to discipline, requiring me to concentrate on the boys in the back row whose English is usually beyond hope, or I can seek to reach those students who have come to learn. Of course, I cannot allow the back row to disrupt the class, but language learning does not flourish in a boot camp environment, in my opinion.

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

large numbers of students can be a problem for some, but if you learn some basic classroom management techniques, you'll have few problems.

i've had class sizes ranging from 36-120 in china, and have probably faced every conceivable problem, incl. a fistfight breaking out in one class.

tomstone · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 293

120? Hell on earth.

MisterButtkins · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 1221

I have around 40 kids in my classes. Generally I give each kid one warning and then they get the boot, but if it's several people talking a lot I'll just boot a random kid who was talking with no warning (this is quite effective). But it's not usually too much of a problem. One thing that does annoy me is the way a student will come to class two minutes late and knock to enter the room, interrupting me and distracting all the other kids in the class. I've told them several times not to knock to enter but they seem convinced that this is proper behavior.

tomstone · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 293

Yes, I've noticed the compulsion to get permission. I tell them several times at the beginning of each term if they have to leave or come in during class they don't have to ask, just do it quietly. They finally get it after a while.

Jayray · Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 373 Location: Back East

ayahyaha · Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject:

I had uni classes of 40-45 with compulsory attendance, and I wasn't allowed to kick them out of class. The best I could do was talk to the head teacher for that class, who would then force the student to apologize in front of the class. Not exactly productive.

As far as big classes go, I think you have to choose between trying to reach everyone and trying to reach the ones who care. I spent a lot of time initially trying to plan amazing lessons that would get everyone engaged. I finally realized that it was impossible to engage everyone, and that many students would sit and chat no matter what I did.

Of course, when I first started, I strove for near-total classroom silence (what I was used to from previous jobs). I think that's just not possible in China. The most effective method I found of keeping the chatting at a low volume was calling on the disruptive students over and over until they got the point.

Taking into account the rules about attendance at my school, I generally ignored the students who were sleeping/texting/putting on makeup/doing their nails and taught to the ones whose faces I could see, paying attention. I failed a lot of students, but unless I changed my curriculum to 90 minutes of chatting about shopping and basketball...

My university wasn't great. It was one of the worst. However, teaching a class of 40 or more who *aren't* already motivated to some degree is just a matter of choosing your battles and trying to reach as many of them as possible--knowing that it's not really possible to reach them all.

tomstone · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 293

YankeeDoodleDandy · Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject:

Most of my spoken classes have ranged from 22 to 33 most of the time. At Hefei Teacher's College, I taught several classes, where the average was between 50 and 55. For Newspaper Reading, British Literature and Culture of the Western World , it ranged from 55 to 70 students per class.

ayahyaha · Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject:

@tomstone

In your situation, it sounds like removing the student was a necessary step to make an example of him. I imagine if I *really* needed a student out of the room I might have been able to do it, but probably opened myself to lots of "Why are they misbehaving? Your classes must be boring." and the like.

When I have had the power of kicking a student out, it has always worked well and didn't need to be repeated (much). In South Korea it was actually encouraged to pitch a student's books into the hallway if they were being too disruptive. Sadly the maturity level of my uni students here in China haven't been much higher than those of the kids I taught in SK...

Cubism · Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 283 Location: US

Hi, I decided a few yrs ago to specialize in Chinese universities because though the classes can be large, you can look around until you find a uni that has 30 in a class.

For me, the benefits outweigh the class sizes IF I put my foot down and seriously demand that I work on the same campus where I teach; that is, that there is no commute and that I can walk to my classes. Then I can go back to my uni-paid-for (free) apartment and relax, use the free internet, write articles to be published, cook, exercise...get the picture? Also, uni campuses are China at its best. Clean, and you don't have to deal with bureaucrats outside the uni stuff, which you can keep at a minimum.

Write again if you need more paraticulars. Sorry for the typos. Happy trails, Cube

Jayray · Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 373 Location: Back East

One very basic way to control an unruly class is to stop class and stare at the students who are disruptive until they behave. I've had very few chronic class room behavioral problems in China.

I'll have a part-time at a middle school, and I expect these kids to be wild at first (30-35). As long as I don't raise my voice or lose my cool, everything always stays manageable. I keep a sense of humor and try to find a reason to laugh with the kids. It has worked for me 9 out of ten times.

Be willing to laugh with the class clown and incorporate him into class activities. Often, you'll find that the class clown has talent that can help turn a somewhat stressful class into a much more relaxed and fun, educational experience.

There'll be some kids (one or two) that you'll take a very quick dislike to. For your own sanity, make it your personal project to find out more about them, and to find things to like about them. It can make a dreadful experience likable in a relativity short period of time.

ayahyaha · Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:52 am Post subject:

JayRay and Cubism are both dead-on, I think.

For all my whingeing I think uni jobs are the best in China, even with big classes. I found them easier to teach in many ways and the hours were so few (14-16 per week) that it wasn't as involving as other teaching gigs I've had. I had heaps of free time and there was less detailed planning because of the way large classes flow differently than smaller ones.

Learning how to handle groups of that size (especially here in China) just takes practice and patience. JayRay's advice is great.

I still wouldn't touch a group of younger students with so many students, but I think that just takes a different kind of person.

Good luck, whatever you decide!