Job Discussion Forums

[razorhideki]

Not trying to start a flame war-it's just that my thesis(so to speak) is not a cheery one: I've come to the conclusion that the EFL racket in E. Asia is regressing, not progressing(for the benefits for FTs, that is). It's fair to give readers a brief summary of my background. A little less than 14 yrs. ago, I got into this EFL racket. I've taught at public schools, a private outfit, and a "university" in Japan, Korea and the PRC. Nine years in total. I've a BA, BEd and TEFL Cert. Here we go....

Japan: Aside from JET(and I agree that JET is a damned good gig; even so, salaries haven't gone up in 15-odd years), how many decent gigs are left? A decade ago guys were rather sheepish in admitting they got only the mythical "visa minimum"(250,000/mo.); now people are signing contracts for 180,000/mo.(!)and spending thousands of their own bucks just to get set up?! Non-JET direct hires are going the way of the do-do bird & SDCs(shady dispatch companies) are becoming the order of the day.

S. Korea: Where do I even begin? Always the least desirable E. Asian locale to live in, even the sweetened pot is souring. Hagwons are as bad as ever. Public schools? Forget JET-like contracts. Little vacation time, decreasing salaries(factor in exchange rates),etc. Visa regulations and the trouble & expense thereof, have made Korea a "no-go"-not to mention blatantly racist medical requirements.

China: Still many contracts offering 4K quai/mo. And people are still signing up!

OK...countries I haven't taught in....


HK: Aside from NET, I hear precious little that's positive. Even though NET has few complaints about pay & benefits, there's a SLEW of complaints as to how admin. treats them.

Vietnam: Given the cost of living, $2K/mo. should entail a good gig. Even so, google a prospective VN employer and there seems to be a SLEW of complaints.

Thailand? Taiwan? You get the point...if you disagree, fine. Not looking for flames...hell, go ahead & try to convince me I'm wrong...I welcome it.

[Porlestone]

No war needed and in fact, I agree with your thesis. I've thought about it and felt it, particularly for about the last year or so.

For the last six years straight I've spent a year or more in Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam. I also spent a year in Japan in the mid-90s. Presently in Thailand, where you are doing "well" if you are living month-to-month with your salary. You'd be doing nice if you actually saved up a plane ticket at the end of a year. You'll have warm weather and good food as your sole benefits, and adult venues to linger in if they don't tire you out or make you grow wary so soon.

Korea over the last several years seems to be in a long "crackdown" phase. They even produced TV shows exploring the "exploitative foreigners."

Vietnam is growing quite similar. They release news articles that fuel their fires. Current visa hassles and run arounds, employers growing chips on their shoulders, holding the visa over the teachers' heads. In a part that isn't related to the schools but will affect you, a monetary situation that is terrible. You'll be paid in local currency that is worthless anywhere else in the world. Good luck getting a decent exchange rate locally into another currency before leaving the country.

Taiwan was actually quite strict in my experience. The Chinese seem to be rather fun to mingle and socialize with, but can be helacious (sp?) to work under. However I was right in Taipei, and was told the further out you go, the schools and admins are more relaxed. Credibility of the source not verified, but I would tend to imagine it could be so.

The best thing to do is be wealthy before getting to Asia, then pick and choose where you go and as you wish. With a lot of funds to fall back on, a decent -- not wonderful -- life can be had. More caution is recommended than say, the 90s.

[eclectic]

Ive been 1.5 years in the south of S> Korea away from big cities and Ive got a great female boss, very generous, always cutting me breaks with arriving 10 mins. before class, etc. With my 2.2 million I can save 1.3 million/month which is about $1000 US a month. I cant complain about that. Yes the social "life" is frustrating, the staring, the bowing, the inflexibility the naivete, etc., but in general I could be at 1 of those nightmare hakwons Im reading about every day. My boss begged me to renew the contract loast year and is already begging me 6 mos. into this one to renew again. Made me suspicious at first, but she likes me and I like her and everything's pretty darn good, work-wise anyway.

Wouldnt want a break-even thing in VN or Thai for sure. Japan's too expensive. South Korea still the best bet IM limited O.

[Worldly]

[Tainan]

Probably true to some extent. A lot of this is simple supply and demand. The more foreign teachers there are, the more picky schools can be. I think there are many, many times more foreigners in Korea now than there were in 1995, when I first went there, which makes it less of a buyer's market for the teacher. The only way that would change would be if fewer foreigners wanted to go there; given the perennial attractiveness of exotic travel to the very young, I don't see that happening, although an improvement in the job situation in the U.S. might help somewhat.

In 1995, people were already saying that Japan was saturated and didn't pay enough relative to cost of living. Teachers in Korea were doing nothing but complaining, then as now. The big difference might be China. While living in Korea sometime in 97 or 98 I met one guy who had taught in Mainland China--the very idea of doing that was amazing. Now there are hundreds of foreigners teaching in China. China's population could be big enough to absorb a LOT of the foreign teacher population.

Basically, the assumption back in 1995 was that the quality of life for an FT was in inverse proportion to the number of other FTs there, for simple supply-and-demand reasons. Japan was the past (had been great in the 80s, now was saturated); Korea was the present; China, Vietnam etc. were the future.

Now here's my rant:

For me the fly in the ointment--a very big fly--has always been the work-visa demand, which essentially puts a teacher at the mercy of the school which has granted the visa. The school can then make any demands it wants: work from eight in the morning until ten at night; require the teacher to show up a full hour before his first class starts. Worse yet, it seeps into our own mentality. Look at the conversations here (and they have not changed since 1995): in any other plane of existence, someone who quits his job (assuming he gives a bit of decent notice) is a free human being exercising his right to move on when he isn't happy where he is. In this field, someone who quits a job is breaking a contract, deserting his responsibilities, and an all-around bad guy. In the minds of sane people, someone who travels the globe, working a month here and a month there, is enjoying his youth and doing some good work among the people he visits, who appreciate his work while he's there and respect his right to move on when he wants to move on. In this field, someone who does that is regarded as irresponsible. (Why? Does responsible work only come in one-year packages? A lot of the English students of Asia would probably be better off with one teacher for one month and another for another. They'd meet all kinds of people, be exposed to all kinds of ways of speaking English, and they wouldn't get bored.) In the real world, someone who works for himself, advertising his services and finding clients without a middle-man is respected as an entrepeneur. In this field, someone who does that is working illegally! Yet in all my years in Asia, I invariably taught much better lessons "illegally" than in schools. Something about the environment--meeting in a home, vs. an office building--and the freedom of choosing a curriculum that suited the teacher and the student, without interference from some boss--made it better.

[Glenski]

[adrianmark]

I've been regularly pulling in 20,000 yuan per month in China for the past 5 years. No complaint here.

Simple formula - work hard, prepare your classes, don't make unnecessary waves and be committed to your profession.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[runthegauntlet]