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PMU in Al Khobar
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
desultude wrote:
Knowing HR and the westerners at the top involved is such stuff, I would say it is just too plausible.
Then you've identified a bias within my post. I was assuming the admin was not western in its make-up.

And I quickly admit Westerners engage in make-believe and coerce through "presentations" of "truth".

This notion of "encouraging" people to quit is lamentable. I'm reminded of landlords that press for the highest rent possible from a pool of tenants and are surprised when the tenant makes late payments and gripes about conditions.

Thanks Camel.
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desultude



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lazycomputerkids wrote:
desultude wrote:
Knowing HR and the westerners at the top involved is such stuff, I would say it is just too plausible.
Then you've identified a bias within my post. I was assuming the admin was not western in its make-up.

And I quickly admit Westerners engage in make-believe and coerce through "presentations" of "truth".

This notion of "encouraging" people to quit is lamentable. I'm reminded of landlords that press for the highest rent possible from a pool of tenants and are surprised when the tenant makes late payments and gripes about conditions.

Thanks Camel.


The westerners in the admin mostly have no power and are both window dressing and an interface with the western faculty. Some gracefully accept their impotence and deal well with the western faculty (those would, IMHO, be on the women's side, where lack of power is a given). The others become absolute power hungry bullies, who play well the game of kick the dog- the dog being anyone below them who gets in their way, or not. All in all, a very sad picture.
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Sheikh N Bake



Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lazycomputerkids wrote:
I've discovered many middle-easterners have chauvinisms toward Saudi Arabia possessed with self-serving excuses more often attributed to an 'imperialist' Westerner that views their 'standards' as challenging Saudi Arabia's global competitiveness.



What?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
He means in Plain English that other Arabs dislike the Saudis.
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sheikh N Bake wrote:
What?
Do they speak English in what? English, mother *&!#@, do they speak it?
Say what again...

Last edited by lazycomputerkids on Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scot47 wrote:
He means in Plain English that other Arabs dislike the Saudis.
In a manner of speaking. I don't know about plain. Would you admit some fraction of the forum criticizes posts with usage errors as well as posts of a more formal language? An optimum, a middle, is a relative judgement.

I wouldn't say 'dislike'. I'd say what I did. More like frustration and a defending of turf that, as Arab speakers, they (ME admins & teachers) understand Saudi culture where Westerners do not.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dear LCT,

"The surrounding middle-eastern countries have supplied Saudi Arabia with professionals for a long time and I sense a "pecking order" the longer I'm here."

There is indeed a "pecking order" (maybe in both senses of the word "order.")
Here's my experience of what it was (more or less) in my time there - top to bottom (I'm speaking only of males here, of course.)

Saudis
Americans (this may have changed thanks to Dubya)
British
All other Westerners
Egyptians with "advanced degrees"
Other Middle East citizens with "advanced degrees"
Rich, educated Asians
Just about everybody else



(and, somewhere down here - women.)

Regards,
John
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
There is indeed a "pecking order" (maybe in both senses of the word "order.")
Here's my experience of what it was (more or less) in my time there - top to bottom (I'm speaking only of males here, of course.)

Saudis
Americans (this may have changed thanks to Dubya)
British
All other Westerners
Egyptians with "advanced degrees"
Other Middle East citizens with "advanced degrees"
Rich, educated Asians
Just about everybody else



(and, somewhere down here - women.)

Regards,
John

John, is your top-to-bottom order in management (senior positions) or in general faculty positions?
What about an Egyptian or Jordanian with a blue/red passport (US/UK), with "advanced degree" and with no blue/green eyes Laughing , where do you put him in that list? (of course according to your past experience in IPA).
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
johnslat wrote:
There is indeed a "pecking order" (maybe in both senses of the word "order.")
John,

I wouldn't contest this, in regard to "favoritism" or "market value."
I was addressing the administration dynamics of Westerners and Arabs as they contend success with Saudi investment. I'm questioning an Arab expertise (Egypt,Jordan,Syria) when it comes to Saudi culture. It's certain many a Westerner asserts a superiority and deserves criticism, but I'm experiencing false claims of Arabic familiarity as well. It came up over grade selling. There was a tolerance from the Arabic side. A gist of, "The Saudi's invite this, so why punish us?" The culture shock is of a severity that its venting, I'm finding, is as prone in Arabic speakers as English.
Sincerely,
LCK