Job Discussion Forums

[Spector]

I'm interested in just how well Guadalajara is competing with Mexico City in terms of pollution levels. Presumably, this mainly concerns the dry season, and in particular from January to April. Some people have come out with the usual internet scare stories (kind of like "the pollution is so bad that when I breathed, my newspaper went on fire!" ) to more measured info on certain areas of Guadalajara having pollution, such as (obviously) the centre, while the surrounding areas aren't a problem. As a result, I don't know whether I would find something no different to any other heavily congested city or a place reminiscent of the Charlton Heston movie Soylent Green!

So to those living in Guadalajara, central or otherwise, let me know what you think. And please don't just post if you have a terrific anecdote about how you vomited every day for three months because of it or whatever. You can post positively too!

[Phil_K]

Well, I don't live in GDL, I live in D.F., but every time I've been to GDL I find the air perfectly clean. Having said that, I think that the problem in D.F. is greatly exaggerated. Yes, you can see it, yes, the figures show that it is higher than it should be, but I'm in my 9th year in D.F. and I can honestly say that I have never been affected by it. And this coming from someone who has spent most of his life in the country. OK, I smoke so maybe that helps!

I know that this post doesn't really answer the OP's questions, but I just feel that there are more important things in life to think about and I believe in the theory that the more people obsess about things, the more things they will find to obsess about.

[Spector]

[Phil_K]

[gregd75]

I live in Tlaquepaque, a suburb of Guadalajara and I really don't think theres a problem with polution, even in the city centre.

Come the end of the dry season, around late May / June, I admit that I get the odd sore throat, but this is usually due to the fires out of the city that get set off, but they can't put out. It doesn't worry me, though.

There's polution in every city. I wouldn't worry about it, to be honest.

One thing that gets me at the moment, though, is the increase in grafitti everywhere. Has anyone else noticed that its getting everywhere at the moment.

My theory is that unemployment has risen and the youngsters have nothing else to do with their time. But it bugs me! (but not too much)

[Spector]

As a (hopefully) useful update, here are some numbers to throw at some of the scare stories.

First of all, here is the link to a live reading of Mexico City's pollution, updated every hour:
http://www.sma.df.gob.mx/simat2/ingles.php

And the stats from previous days this month:
http://www.sma.df.gob.mx/simat2/informaciontecnica/difusion/imeca/anterior.php?id=24

Here's the same for GDL: (scroll the page to the right)
http://siga.jalisco.gob.mx/ramasp/ramag.htm

...and the highest readings for hoy and ayer:
http://siga.jalisco.gob.mx/ramag/maximos.htm


Both systems use the IMECA scale, which says that any reading above 100 is unhealthy for sensitive groups. Even then, most people won't notice anything. When you get above 150, then you have something more serious, especially if it's prolonged (in the 1990's, there were some occasions where the reading was close to 300!) Looking at the stats, we find that in March, one of the most polluted months of the year, even Mexico City has not once reached 150 in any area at any time.

Generally speaking, the largest pollutant in both DF and GDL come from O3, or Ozone. Almost invariably, this peaks between 2pm and 5pm. Before and after, the level drops dramatically (check out the previous readings on the Mexico City chart). In other words, even when the level of O3 goes above 100, it tends to be for only two or three hours.

As for GDL, it's a watered down version of Mexico City. Its readings are consistently lower, though can still sometimes peak in the 100-130 mark, albeit briefly in one area of the city. Curiously, the Loma Dorada station nearly always reads the highest PM10 (particulates) in the whole district.

To sum up, from what I've seen this month, I would say you don't have much to worry about in GDL, and if March's readings are typical of the dry season (and there's no reason why they shouldn't be) even Mexico City has clearly improved from where it was before.

[Phil_K]

Thanks for great links and statistics!

In reality, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I've found the pudding totally palatable in D.F.

[Tretyakovskii]

It seems many big cities around the world have made progress in cleaning up the air. Places I've been where I've noticed the difference between my earlier visits and more recent ones (last ten to twenty years) are London, Bangkok, and Mexico City, for starters. Apparently some of the measures taken actually do help!

Mazatlan, owing to the power plant at the edge of the city, and Merida, owing to the pulverized limestone in the air from scores of home remodeling projects going on simultaneously, are the only two cities I've had to flee after a week or so of being there. I'm sure the air in both places can be better, at times, than what I experienced there, last year.

After living in many cities with bad air for many years, I'm grateful for the clean air, here, where there are sea breezes, almost no industry, and electricity is generated in far away Chiapas State.

[Samantha]

Tretyakovskii wrote

[Tretyakovskii]

That's really good news, Samantha. We liked Mazatlan very much, and it's nice to hear they're doing something serious about the air pollution there.

[Samantha]

Actually, air pollution hasn't ever seemed to be a major issue for people here. I was surprised to read your post, actually. Perhaps you were in the downtown where the diesel buses run bumper to bumper? That's pretty disgusting...just like in any other city in Mexico.

I have had asthmatic family members visit over the years who said the sea breezes provided much relief from what they were used to. The air quality sure hasn't affected me in my 10 years living here. As I said, a non-issue. There is always an ocean breeze.

[Tretyakovskii]

Here's what we witnessed in the eight days we were there which is, admittedly, a narrow window of time, and there could easily be seasonal or other variations which mitigate the problem-

At night, the winds shifted to off shore; the power plant was at the south east end of the city; it burned fuel oil; during the night, the airborne particulate and unburned particles of oil were carried by the winds out over the city in a large yellow cloud stretching from the power plant, and settling on all surfaces exposed to it. There was an oily film laid down on cars and other objects outdoors. The local people kept their windows shut at night to keep it out of their homes.

The issue was first called to my attention when I noticed the owner of the guesthouse where we stayed, getting up at 5 AM, and laboriously wiping down everything left out overnight.

When we spoke to some locals about it, they said it had been a problem for years, and nothing had been done. From the article you called our attention to, Samantha, it appears the CFE is now trying to do something about it, at some considerable expense.

I'm happy for everyone concerned- those who found it a problem, and those who didn't- that something serious is now being done about it. It can only make Mazatlan an even nicer place to live, and visit.

[Samantha]

I don't plan to argue with you because it makes no difference to me what you decided about Mazatlan in your one week here, but you were misinformed, or jumped to conclusions. I would not like to see someone put off a visit to Mazatlan (or Merida, for that matter) based on your negative comments.

The CFE plant is miles out of the city, for starters. The diesel buses and trucks are the culprits for air pollution and will be no matter what, just as in any (real) Mexican city. Don't you wipe the residue from the salty sea air off your vehicles and other things in Cancun? The dew is heavy off the ocean (especially in winter months). From some of your comments, I suspect you were here in winter months, not summer. People shut their windows at night because they get cold in the winter. Otherwise, we don't shut our windows except to keep the air conditioning in or the rain out. I don't have any "oily film" in my house. Dust, yes. But I think even Cancun has dust. It did whenever I was there, anyway.

Your comments on Merida were rather painting it with one big brush, too. It is a lovely city, and many people are moving there for that reason. I don't think the entire city is under construction, though. Maybe too many foreigners moving in and renovating old Colonials in a certain area of the city? Renovations don't go on forever, even though it might seem that way to the person doing the renovation! So again, maybe a rush to judgement on your part after a very short visit and limited access to facts, just as in Mazatlan.

Glad you found your Utopia, but many wouldn't trade anything for living there. It's expensive, has a transient work-force, and plenty of crime. Problems, as a result, far outweigh what many of us deal with in our little corners of Mexico.

[Tretyakovskii]

Samantha, you invented that "utopia" idea out of whole cloth. All I said was that, in Cancun, the air was clean.

I allowed that I was in Mazatlan, which I said I liked very much, only eight days. During those eight days, the air was bad, at night.

You must like Mazatlan very much to be so protective of it.

In any case, Mazatlan is a fine place, and I'd be happy to live there, too, in all likelihood, if I could find work that paid reasonably well.

I liked the fact that it was on the sea and had a fitness culture, demonstrated by the many people out on the malecon every morning, among other things.

[geaaronson]

On the other hand there are those that are most adversely affected by the pollution in DF. For 28 months of living there, I would wake up every morning with throat congestion and would spit up phlegm or congestion 6-7 times before leaving for work. My eyes were constantly stinging. This experience was the same for a student of mine who went to DF for advanced medical studies in dermatololgy. She complained even more of the stinging sensation.