Job Discussion Forums

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

There are plenty of techniques published in the www regarding this
topic, however the scenario in my case slightly different. I am a
fresh PhD graduate from a middle-level UK university without any
teaching experience and been offered an assistant professor job (for
a content position post - non-English post) at KSU @ 12500
SAR/month. It is relatively very low.

I have clearly said my salary expectation during the interview. I
got the offer via email this week and got 3 days to say yes or no.
My query is how do I reiterate the negotiation. I do not know how I
can negotiate the salary in KSA and no experience in doing it in the
UK as well. From what I could figure out from this forum,
negotiation is almost a standard practise in KSA. Certainly I have a
disadvantage that I do not have any solid FT teaching experience,
other than 3 years of tutoring/seminars I did it as a part of my PhD
funding. I want to take it to at least 14500. How do I do this? I
guess email will be the best way to communicate with the HR than a
telephonic conversation. However, how can I set the plot? For
example, in this case, in order to make a compromise, I need to get
at least another 2000 SAR. So while I bargain, should I quote a
higher amount, say 16000 and then get it down to ~15K? Or as soon as
I quote 16K, will they put down the offer they already made. It is a
tricky step. Any advice regarding the salary negotiation techniques
at the post-interview/post-initial offer stage will be highly
appreciated.

All eminent English-teachers, please forgive me for my pathetic English, I
haven't spell/grammer checked this due to time constraints.

Please feel free to pm me any format of negotiation emails(obviously
without any personal infos)
Thank you,
Che

trapezius · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject:

When I took the job I am currently in about 3 years ago, I tried to negotiate the salary in person with the Vice Dean. He said if I had something better elsewhere, I should leave.

As for your salary, SR. 12,500 as a starting salary for a fresh PhD is just about right. You won't get more than that. Because, why should you? That's basically the standard salary for fresh PhDs in Saudi universities (except for KAUST... see below). In fact, when my brother (PhD in math from a top US university) applied for a post last year, he was offered SR. 11,500 from KFUPM in Dhahran, a much better university/employer than KSU.

Congratulations on your PhD... I wish I was smart enough to do one, I stopped at an MS. However, if you are in it for the money, you could have gotten the same offer or better with a 3 year Bachelor's degree and a TEFL certificate.

Such is the world we live in today!

P.S. The other thing is, if you ever plan on being a professor in the UK/US, you can kiss that plan good bye if you are going to spend some time lecturing at any Saudi university. (except for the new KAUST... but what is your PhD in...? KAUST only has scientific fields. They pay something like SR. 30,000 per month or more, with no out of pocket expenses!)

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject:

Linguist · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 202

Che,

As far as I know, you can get higher salaries than you quoted above if you are a PhD holder. What's your field?

Negotiate and be ready to back off. Don't accept employers who only give you 3 days to think whether to accept or reject their offer. The last time they tried this on me, I said no and thank you. They called me immediately, and begged me to accept their offer. I rejected it for other reasons, but they were ready to renegotiate. And, I don't have a PhD.

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

The one and only one motivation to choose KSA is due to the hardship
in finding a suitable faculty position in the UK as well as a
fascinating postdoctoral project to pursue. My research field comes
under physical sciences. On top, I have a massive loan to pay off
ASAP.

>> You won't get more than that. Because, why should you?

Why shouldn't? However you gauge it, a PhD holder with 3 journal
publications certainly got some rationales behind it to negotiate
for an Assistant Professor job.

If a BA+TEFL worth 13.5 K, why a PhD holder with an emerging track
record of publications to be underrated? It is an ironical paradox
and common sense has nothing to do with it. However I assume thats
the truth.

>> Career in the UK/US!!!!

lol Smile

>> when my brother (PhD in math from a top US university) applied for a post last year, he was offered SR. 11,500

Must be an idiot to take it. I believe over availability is
demoralizing the whole system. Furthermore KFUPM is a university
with academic focus on Science and Engineering courses; therefore
why a math prof's market value is further down?

Let me come to the original question I asked, how to negotiate with
salary? Finally it is my choice to take it or leave it.

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject:

trapezius · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject:

7168Riyadh · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 149

This issue of salary negotiation has come up again and again.

Why do employers here have a take it or leave it attitude? Firstly, they cannot distinguish between a high quality candidate and an average candidate, and lots of people apply for jobs. To them, you're just a number. Secondly, Arabs are savvy (slave) traders. They pay what a person is worth at market value, and a bit more. They don't expect an argument over the price. Finally--and this is important--the saudis have a face culture. Keeping face is very important here. By asking for money, you are questioning their judgment and generosity, and you could very well be doing so in front of a subordinate, which is a no no.

So how to negotiate? You have to know how much you're worth and somehow make it clear how much you want before the offer is made. Once the offer is made, it won't be easy to get more, although you might be able to squeeze some extra benefit/s.

There are exceptions to every rule. If you want to negotiate in this case, just remain silent and see how they react. Alternatively, say that the salary did not meet your expectations and invite them to raise the offer. With a Phd, you do have some power., so don't rush in.

Good luck

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

In my experience here over 4 decades, negotiation is simply not done in recruitment. The attitude from the Saudis is,'That is the offer. Take it or leave it.".

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

7atetan · Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:17 am Post subject:

cheguvera · Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 24

Asda · Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 231

Now now 7atetan, (this thread may get locked like the last one in which race cropped up) remember that there is racism in EVERYONE! Ask the Tutsis about the Hutus in Rwanda and vice versa and you'll see what I mean. Just that some are better at hiding it than others and to many more, it really doesn't matter. Every race has good and bad eggs.

About negotiation, I guess it depends on the employer and how much you can leverage (sorry for using BS business speak!) your experience and qualifications. Usually, if they have a set figure or range in mind for you, khalaas, that's it...it can be very difficult to get them to budge. For your integrity, try to not want the job too much, always be prepared to walk away. I know it's easier said than done, especially if you are sitting in your home country without a job etc - which is why I said 'try'...

Also, some employers have been known to give in to negotiating, some have even come back to people who have walked away...once again, no hard and fast rule. Depends on how much they want you and how well you can persuade your worth.