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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, goodness, not all of us are so brilliant. I did an entire master's degree (the first one) doing a thesis on student intellectual development. As far as I can tell, the majority of people don't develop the skills I mentioned in my earlier post without the benefit of higher education. Of this I am convinced. It was certainly true of me..but then I was no doubt of negligible intelligence to begin with, at least compared to you. I was 26 when I started college and had been in the Navy for 4 years, worked as editor and writer for an English-language magazine in Europe, had lived all over Europe from age 10 to 25--which included my 4 years in the Navy in the Mediterranean--YET, I was still intellecutally inadequate in my view. Why else would I have actually watched the Six Million Dollar Man on a weekly basis?? That didn't last long once I was in college! What a difference even a semester made for me...let alone 129 credits later. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| Why else would I have actually watched the Six Million Dollar Man on a weekly basis?? |
 Well, that explains it all!! Not to mention the Sopranos.
Fortunately, it doesn't require any brilliance. It is just another example of those studies about different learning styles... differing goals... different ages of reaching maturity... individual curiosity that makes one want to keep learning without the threat/reward of a grade or because one paid for it.
But, I still feel that organized education... even the MA... only provided me with a platform on which I chose to keep building... many do not. It was my odd curiosity that had an English major sitting in the pre-med human anatomy course (and got me the 3rd highest grade out of 80 students) and led me to be teaching the Driver's Ed class in high school because I was the only one who understand the internal combustion engine while the teacher knew nothing beyond putting the key in the ignition.
It is something I found lacking in so many Arab students (and probably shared by students everywhere, but I never taught everywhere). So few of them showed the curiosity to learn while most just wanted to know "the answer" to pass "the test" to get "the grade" to get the "certificate."
While we tend to say that writing or reading is their most difficult skill, motivation is one of the hardest thing for the teacher... convincing them that they not only need to know... but to make them want to know.
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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I learned more from my use of the public library than in class in High School or at my Alma Mater Edinburgensis.
But how many students anywhere ever use a library unless they are forced to ? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Even less so now that the internet is so easily available. Of course there is much knowledge to be found here if one can pull oneself away from the silly social networks or whatever one's 'hobby' is...  (Dave's?)
VS |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Sheikh N Bake wrote: |
| Why else would I have actually watched the Six Million Dollar Man on a weekly basis?? |
Well, that explains it all!! Not to mention the Sopranos.
VS |
Yeah, smile when you say that! The Sopranos didn't just win all the Emmys and accolades in the States but even across the pond The Guardian termed it the finest TV drama ever made.
Talk about learning styles and motivation, what about overbearing, meddling academic supervisor styles. The worst ones in EFL tertiary environments in the Gulf simply blame the student malaise on the instructor for failing to "inspire the students." Nothing, of course, is the responsibility of the little darlings. One sup'vr was simply way too maternal about our charges. Not to say women in these positions are like that--just that this one was. Very annoying.
I can agree : I loathe those social web sites. Maybe they wouldn't be as bad as they are if they actually designed them well. But they'd still be a waste of my time. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well... there goes my opinion of the Guardian!!  As if TV awards had anything to do with actual quality rather than pure cheerleading to get more viewers... just like the film awards.
VS |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| It is something I found lacking in so many Arab students (and probably shared by students everywhere, but I never taught everywhere). So few of them showed the curiosity to learn while most just wanted to know "the answer" to pass "the test" to get "the grade" to get the "certificate." |
Absolutely.
I've had some excellent students in my time in KSA. Some of them Saudi, others Palestinian, Syrian or Lebanese. But even the better students tend to be extremely exam motivated. If it's not in the exam, it's not worth bothering about.
In a sense of course you can't blame them for having such superficial motivation. Their entire educational background has trained them to think this way, and it also has to be said that many of the materials used are utterly uninspiring and often far too difficult for the students, at least as regards language. So this reinforces their tendency only to focus on what 'the answer' is and not bother looking for anything else.
There's also the fact that reading is really not a part of the culture in the Gulf countries. College 'libraries' are a sad joke. I had university students who were shocked and surprised when their teacher showed them this novel innovation - an index at the back of a book where you can look things up! Another student was equally shocked to learn that you could actually borrow books from the library!
I don't think there are easy or quick solutions to any of this. It's all going to take a long time, and there is little we blow-ins can do to change these cultural attitudes. We just have to try and deal with it as best we can. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ...........and forget any delusions about being "role models" for our students. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dear scot47,
Don't be so modest. I'm absolutely certain your patience, gentleness, compassion, and blithesome. light-hearted manner have made an indelible impression on many of your charges. 
I can picture it - decades from now, I see one of your students, full of years and surrounded by his great-grandchildren, all of whom are imploring him to tell, yet once more, about that foreign teacher who changed their great-grandaddy's life:
"Please, please, great-granddaddy, tell us again about that great master, scot47, and how he opened your eyes to the world of wisdom."
"Teachers affect eternity; no one can tell where their influence stops."
Regards,
John |
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Kipling
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Even less so now that the internet is so easily available.
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I find the internet is no substitute for a decent well stocked library.
I tried to find a poem 'A Lament for the Great Music" by Hugh MacDiarmid
aka Christopher Murray Grieve and got a load of advertisements for Amazon and other book sellers and not a sniff of what I wanted ....the net is a vast market where certain information is concerned. Still, one of the great things about currently residing in a one party 'commie' state is that
FACE BOOK IS BANNED.
Every cloud ...eh?
Mr K
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The poem will still be within copyright, which is why you might find it difficult to find. |
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Kipling
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: |
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The poem will still be within copyright, which is why you might find it difficult to find
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Which is why a good library is so essential.
Mr K
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Well... there goes my opinion of the Guardian!! As if TV awards had anything to do with actual quality rather than pure cheerleading to get more viewers... just like the film awards.
VS |
Forget the Emmys; serious critics everywhere like it, and I like it. Youse got a problem with that? 'Nuf said? Fuhgeddaboudit! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I like to consider myself a fairly good judge of TV drama. I like "Law and Order," (the "original" and all it's spinoffs) "The Closer," "Saving Grace," "In Plain Sight," and "The Good Wife."
I like them because I see the writing and the acting as being superior (often far superior) to all the other "drama" programs on TV.
And that's why, like the Sheik, I include "The Sopranos," as well. It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but I think the writing and the acting on that
show were far above the norm for TV.
Regards,
John |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
And that's why, like the Sheik, I include "The Sopranos," as well. It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but I think the writing and the acting on that
show were far above the norm for TV.
Regards,
John |
Oh, I think your comment about Sopranos is an understatement. Turned a British friend of mine onto it recently. Normally he doesn't like divorce-drama scenes, but the one at the end of season 4 in Sopranos is so far above anything else in that respect that he loved it. My gosh, it is SO good!
I heard "The Wire" approaches Sopranos in quality but I know nothing about it. Comments? |
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