Job Discussion Forums

Karla · Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 15

Hello everyone!

Was wondering if someone give me an idea of what is most difficult for Arab learners to master in English?

(I'm in Poland right now, and articles drive these folk nuts, as does "th" and the fact that the perfect and continuous don't exist for them.)

Cheers,
Karla

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Hi Karla,

That is a pretty general question. As relates to which skill? For instance, Arabs tend to talk your arm off, but have difficulties with reading and writing. Specifically, there is no 'p' in Arabic, so they can't discriminate a difference there and you end up with things like 'bark the car' and 'I have a broblem.' Some dialects of Arabic have problems with the 'th' and turn it into a 'z' sound.

In reading the biggest difficulty is that in Arabic, reading is used to practice pronunciation, so they tend to want to read orally concentrating on that and rather ignoring what it actually says. Smile

This causes them difficulties mainly if they need to be able to read English for academic study.

Writing is probably the biggest problem as it is difficult to find two languages as different rhetorically than Arabic and English. Whereas English is a language that prefers to say the most with the least amount of words - keep it simple, Arabic writing tends to say the least with as many words as possible. (no criticism intended - it is just a very flowery language)

Grammatically speaking, Arabic has no indefinite article, so they have more problems with 'a' than with 'the' which exists in Arabic using different rules, of course. The sentence structure, which relates to the rhetoric above allows mostly the use of long sentences which English would describe as a 'run-on' or 'comma splice.' They can write a whole page and not have a single full-stop!! And, they tend to want to start every sentence with 'and.' Smile

I taught mainly writing for many years and it was quite a challenge. Now that I have written all this --- I wonder why you are asking --- are you just curious?

VS

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject:

My favourite 'p' and 'b' one is:

"Miss, I need some banadol for my beriod bain".

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

No perfect in Polish ?

The distinction betwen perfective and imperfective is crucial to the question of aspect in Polish and in other Slavonic Languages.

tefllifer · Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 81

That would be 'no berfect in Bolish'? - Right?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Brobably :P

For English-speakers the distinction between the two diferent aspects in Slavic Languages is the "Ass's Bridge". Some (the "asses") never passs over it !. I am one of those and I have given up trying to understand the distinction, but I can still communicate.

A bit like my Arab students who never handle tenses but say :
"I go Corniche yesterday."
"I go Corniche today."
"I go Corniche tomorrow"

Or
"I am go" for Present
and
"I was go" for Past

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

"Or
"I am go" for Present
and
"I was go" for Past"

Tell me about it I've been marking exams all day.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

From Scot's message:

A bit like my Arab students who never handle tenses but say :
"I go Corniche yesterday."
"I go Corniche today."
"I go Corniche tomorrow"

That is exactly how I speak Spanish. This is the lazy language learner system for avoiding the burden of memorizing conjugations of the different tenses. Embarassed

In Spanish I just added the appropriate pronoun and time marker and off I went. Isn't this perfectly appropriate under the 'communicative competance' approach to teaching language?? Smile

VS

johnslat · Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: Don't be tense

Dear scot47 and VS,
Well, that certainly works for Bahasa Indonesian:

"The basic word order is SVO. Verbs are not inflected for person or number, and there are no tenses; tense is denoted by time adverbs (such as yesterday) or by other tense indicators, such as sudah, meaning already."
Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Hey,

Let's declare that all languages work that way. I believe in simplification!! Cool

VS

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I did see some suggestson once that Bahasa Indonesia - or Malay - would be better suited as an international language than English.

Simple Grammar and regular orthography.

It ain't gonna happen though !

Bindair Dundat · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 1123

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

.....Or turning up on time.

johnslat · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:23 am Post subject:

Dear Karla,
While I agree with the above posters, my candidates for "most difficult" would be:

grammar: tenses, prepositions, articles

writing: run-ons, fragments, coherence, unity, spelling and word choice

reading: inferences, context clues and scanning

Regards,
John