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lazycomputerkids
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
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 Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
I am, in my own clearly inadequate way, asserting that people need to be paid equal pay for equal work. It is a basic, very basic, standard of equity and fairness. And it applies whether the person is a street sweeper or a banker.
Once the non-native speaker steps into the classroom and teaches the same material I teach, she is entitled to the same wage as I make. I claim this for teaching. If one person is publishing, researching, managing, etc., then consideration can be given in terms of wages and benefits. I fail to see why I am worth 10% more than a white Canadian colleague of mine, simply because many years ago I had the fortune to be able to complete an advanced degree. |
You're choosing to fail to see why. It's been explained. You accentuate qualities of your choosing while ignoring others. A bi-lingual, by definition, cannot confirm fluency with the immediacy or exactness of a native speaker. Such ability has value and is reflected in a market. |
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h-train
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 100
Location: 26 miles from Bahrain
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Aramcon - or one of the hired hands bused in with the cleaners and typists ? |
Aeish?
The students are apprentices. They will work for Aramco in different capacities... is that what you mean? They are 18-20 years old mostly... |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: |
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My question was aimed at you not at the trainees. 'Are you an "Aramcon"?' This is Aramcospeak for someone employed directly by Aramco, as opposed to someone hired by a contractor.
The fact that you did not understand the question indicates that you are not an "Aramcon". |
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Asda
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Better an "Aramcon" than a "Haram Con", denken sie nicht?!
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I fail to see why I am worth 10% more than a white Canadian colleague of mine, simply because many years ago I had the fortune to be able to complete an advanced degree. |
And I fail to see just what your problem is here!
It costs a lot of time and money to do an MA, especially in the States. Most people who study for an MA do so not only (!) for the love of learning but because they believe the degree will enhance their job prospects. It's perfectly reasonable for them to expect that their expertise will be rewarded by their employer, whether or not that expertise is actually put into good use, as is rarely the case in KSA. Claiming that this is an example of discrimination just seems silly to me - those who complain about it should either go elsewhere or take the trouble to get an MA, as some of their colleagues did. |
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h-train
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 100
Location: 26 miles from Bahrain
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
My question was aimed at you not at the trainees. 'Are you an "Aramcon"?' This is Aramcospeak for someone employed directly by Aramco, as opposed to someone hired by a contractor.
The fact that you did not understand the question indicates that you are not an "Aramcon". |
Ah ha! It was a clever put-down all along. Went right over my head. I actually ride to work in the back of a chicken truck. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I fail to see why I am worth 10% more than a white Canadian colleague of mine, simply because many years ago I had the fortune to be able to complete an advanced degree. |
You had the 'fortune'? No - you took the time and trouble to go to university and complete a master's degree, which indicates not only a deep level of knowledge in the subject, but also a dedication to your profession. 'Fortune' has nothing to do with it - sure, some people don't have the time or money to go back to college for a year or two, but employers do not run on a charitable basis and are quite entitled to prefer those teachers who have masters degrees, and offer higher salaries as an incentive for them to come.
| Quote: |
| Once the non-native speaker steps into the classroom and teaches the same material I teach, she is entitled to the same wage as I make. |
Maybe you should discuss this on the Oman board, or take it up with the authorities there. From what you have said, the native vs non-native issue seems far more important in Oman than it is in KSA. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Maybe you should discuss this on the Oman board, or take it up with the authorities there. From what you have said, the native vs non-native issue seems far more important in Oman than it is in KSA. |
Actually... it isn't really an issue at all in Oman. Pay is based on credentials.
VS |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Actually... it isn't really an issue at all in Oman. Pay is based on credentials. |
Earlier in this - or another - thread, Desultude claimed that the Omani Min of Ed is now only going to employ native speaking ESL teachers. |
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usa_in_gulf
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote:
| Quote: |
| Actually... it isn't really an issue at all in Oman. Pay is based on credentials. |
This is the Saudi board---but I have to correct the above statement. It is simply not true. Pay is based on credentials...based on your passport. A non-native speaker and a native speaker---with the same credentials-- are not paid the same in Oman.
Are there rare exceptions to this "norm"? Yes, but rare. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| usa_in_gulf wrote: |
veiledsentiments wrote:
| Quote: |
| Actually... it isn't really an issue at all in Oman. Pay is based on credentials. |
This is the Saudi board---but I have to correct the above statement. It is simply not true. Pay is based on credentials...based on your passport. A non-native speaker and a native speaker---with the same credentials-- are not paid the same in Oman.
Are there rare exceptions to this "norm"? Yes, but rare. |
They are paid the same at SQU and always have been. I know people with Egyptian, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Swedish, etc passports and they are/were paid based on their credentials. They are also paid the same at the small private college in Muscat where I worked.
When the MoHE was doing the hiring for the hinterlands colleges it was the same... but I expect the sleazy recruiters do as they damn please.
VS |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| h-train wrote: |
Ah ha! It was a clever put-down all along. Went right over my head. I actually ride to work in the back of a chicken truck. |
I fell off a turnip truck in a classy neighborhood, then did two master's degrees. Of course they are an upgrade in education and of course a university or college is reasonable if it pays more for those with more education. |
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usa_in_gulf
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote:
| Quote: |
They are paid the same at SQU and always have been. I know people with Egyptian, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Swedish, etc passports and they are/were paid based on their credentials. They are also paid the same at the small private college in Muscat where I worked.
When the MoHE was doing the hiring for the hinterlands colleges it was the same... but I expect the sleazy recruiters do as they damn please.
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Your information is not correct. Again, there may be a rare exeception but the "norm" is as I stated.
I will just end this conversation by agreeing with other a few other posters --its matter of market... not a matter of discrimination. |
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