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Main differences between an ALT and a Eikaiwa school??
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:32 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

I was speaking about Japanese school teachers, who I presume have to have a Japanese teaching license?

They actually study for a teaching related degree in university, but the courses they take are pretty skimpy, IMO. They certainly are not geared towards teaching EFL.

Quote:

Even if you're hiring people for those reasons anyone working with kids should at least have a police check done.

"Should" doesn't necessarily mean it's done.

Quote:

As these are requirements, and not just for teaching but for anyone working near children, in the UK, Australia and many US States it would be pretty straightforward for ALT's to produce one.

I can't speak for the requirements elsewhere. However, with the sleazy dispatc agencies here, I wouldn't count on such a check being done. Can't remember if JET requires a police check or just a voluntary statement of criminal record.

Quote:

Glenski wrote:

At least in elem ed, there's a HR teacher present.

Quote:

The fact that an HR teacher may be present makes little difference as the ALT will still have the freedom to mix with children and move about the school unsupervised.

Then how do you propose to remedy the situation? Just a police check?

womblingfree

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:43 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

I was speaking about Japanese school teachers, who I presume have to have a Japanese teaching license?

Glenski wrote:

They actually study for a teaching related degree in university, but the courses they take are pretty skimpy, IMO. They certainly are not geared towards teaching EFL.

The subject's irrelevant, they still study for a teaching degree. ALT's are usually far less qualified (mostly not at all qualified) to provide any kind of language provision.

womblingfree wrote:

Even if you're hiring people for those reasons anyone working with kids should at least have a police check done.

Glenski wrote:

"Should" doesn't necessarily mean it's done.

No, it's hardly ever done in Japan. It should be. As for the countries I mentioned, if you don't do a police check you'll be prosecuted. Schools and colleges simply don't let anyone through the door without the relevant paperwork.

womblingfree wrote:

As these are requirements, and not just for teaching but for anyone working near children, in the UK, Australia and many US States it would be pretty straightforward for ALT's to produce one.

Glenski wrote:

I can't speak for the requirements elsewhere. However, with the sleazy dispatc agencies here, I wouldn't count on such a check being done.

That's why you need legislation to make sure it's done. If it's a basic requirement then everyone would have to do it.

Glenski wrote:

At least in elem ed, there's a HR teacher present.

womblingfree wrote:

The fact that an HR teacher may be present makes little difference as the ALT will still have the freedom to mix with children and move about the school unsupervised.

Glenski wrote:

Then how do you propose to remedy the situation? Just a police check?

'Just' a police check's the best you can do and would bring up any serious convictions. What else is there? Mind reading?

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:35 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

I was speaking about Japanese school teachers, who I presume have to have a Japanese teaching license?

Glenski wrote:

They actually study for a teaching related degree in university, but the courses they take are pretty skimpy, IMO. They certainly are not geared towards teaching EFL.

The subject's irrelevant, they still study for a teaching degree.

Most are literature majors and are admittedly very weak in using English at all (see those links). Need I say more?

Quote:

ALT's are usually far less qualified (mostly not at all qualified) to provide any kind of language provision.

Agreed. IMO, the usual reason, stated or not, for hiring a foreigner to be an ALT or solo teacher is that they can provide natural sounding English, not that they have any sort of teaching degree or experience. Sad, but true.

Quote:

womblingfree wrote:

As these are requirements, and not just for teaching but for anyone working near children, in the UK, Australia and many US States it would be pretty straightforward for ALT's to produce one.

Glenski wrote:

I can't speak for the requirements elsewhere. However, with the sleazy dispatc agencies here, I wouldn't count on such a check being done.

That's why you need legislation to make sure it's done. If it's a basic requirement then everyone would have to do it.

It's not going to happen in anyone's lifetime.

womblingfree

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:56 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

I was speaking about Japanese school teachers, who I presume have to have a Japanese teaching license?

Glenski wrote:

They actually study for a teaching related degree in university, but the courses they take are pretty skimpy, IMO. They certainly are not geared towards teaching EFL.

womblingfree wrote:

The subject's irrelevant, they still study for a teaching degree.

Glenski wrote:

Most are literature majors and are admittedly very weak in using English at all (see those links). Need I say more?

The importance of the teaching degree's as much for the actual formal teacher training than for the subject specialism. A geography specialist may well find they have to teach Maths, likewise an English teacher may end up with a history class. Knowing your way around the curriculum, government bureaucracy and how to meet the schools criteria for delivering a lesson are just as important as subject specialism for a career teacher.

Quite a few of the Japanese English teachers I know are pretty fluent and with a thorough knowledge of English grammar. There are plenty that can't speak well (seemingly at all in some cases) but I don't always find this problematic. The reason being that the Japanese teachers role is to ensure students pass their exams, and for this English speaking skills are not often, if at all, important. In contrast foreign ALT's in my experience rarely have knowledge of the actual required expectations of the syllabus or the working culture of the school they're in. They're often more of a cultural novelty than an effective teaching tool.

There can be benefits for the students that wish to pursue their English beyond high-school, and for staff with queries about specific points of English usage, but unfortunately an untrained ALT isn't able to answer many of these just because they speak English. The best thing any ALT can do is invest in a decent grammar book, Parrott's Grammar for English Teachers and Murphy's Grammar are pretty good ones. Then at least you can refer to them if you're asked about something you don't know.

Also ALT's should remember that the English spoken in their hometown isn't the only English spoken in the world, nor does it contain all the world's English idioms and phrases.

If I had a dollar for the amount of times I've seen Western English instructors just make something up on the spot that's complete gibberish, well, I'd have quite a few dollars Laughing

Quote:

ALT's are usually far less qualified (mostly not at all qualified) to provide any kind of language provision.Agreed. IMO, the usual reason, stated or not, for hiring a foreigner to be an ALT or solo teacher is that they can provide natural sounding English, not that they have any sort of teaching degree or experience. Sad, but true.

Quote:

womblingfree wrote:

As these are requirements, and not just for teaching but for anyone working near children, in the UK, Australia and many US States it would be pretty straightforward for ALT's to produce one.

Glenski wrote:

I can't speak for the requirements elsewhere. However, with the sleazy dispatc agencies here, I wouldn't count on such a check being done.

That's why you need legislation to make sure it's done. If it's a basic requirement then everyone would have to do it.

It's not going to happen in anyone's lifetime.

Unfortunately it usually takes a string of high-profile tragedies before anything gets done about anything.

starteacher

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

Quite a few of the Japanese English teachers I know are pretty fluent and with a thorough knowledge of English grammar. There are plenty that can't speak well (seemingly at all in some cases) but I don't always find this problematic. The reason being that the Japanese teachers role is to ensure students pass their exams, and for this English speaking skills are not often, if at all, important. In contrast foreign ALT's in my experience rarely have knowledge of the actual required expectations of the syllabus or the working culture of the school they're in. They're often more of a cultural novelty than an effective teaching tool.

This is what I have been saying all along, the students get their English already from the Japanese teachers (or even from jukus/eikaiwas), but the BOE/Ministry think they need to have some "natural sounding" English. Hold on, when I studied French and German in High School, I had never met a French or German in my lifetime, and never did until way after leaving HS. All that we had were tapes and language laboratories and videos. I am sure we studied these languages mainly to pass and get good grades to enter University. When you are a student, that is all you do, you have no ambition as per se (some exceptions),and you don't actually expect you will leave your country to work elsewhere when you are 16. No, you just study. So there is not much difference at home to here in Japan, or any toehr student across the globe. Of course, some students may actually get to like the English subject, just as some will get to like history or biology or maths, but in the end, the aim of the student is to pass exams, otherwise being fluent in one subject such as a language doesn't mean getting into college or Uni and mum and dad are not going to happy about that, are they. English is just one part of overall education of the student. It can even be just an insignificant part for that's student sake, and so the ALT may be nothing more than a passing gimmick.

I have been to schools where some of the Japanese English teachers speak well, so begs the question what am I doing here in this school ? My pretty face ? Are students more likely to be attentive because I am a better speaker than their JTE, regardlessof my qualifications ? Are the JTEs just too polite to say it in yer face you're not needed, but its the system they are in, so suck it up ?

If English is part of the "cultural" aspect of the curriculam, then why not bring over Chinese teachers, French teachers, Korean teachers, etc. The English ALT is a gimmick, and it is not gong to change because it has gone to far ahead for it amended. And the longer it goes, the more downgraded the image of an ALT has, if not already.

Sorry, if this post/thread is a tough one, but it goes to show how downtrodden the industry is. And nothing is changing for the better.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:30 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

The importance of the teaching degree's as much for the actual formal teacher training than for the subject specialism.

In the case of EFL, I disagree. JTEs don't teach about English literature. My own co-worker is a JTE at my university (FT, tenured), and he lists a certain novelist as his major interest of research focus, but even in university, he does not teach any lit related courses. Of course, some may, but that's uni, not the situation we're on.

Quote:

Knowing your way around the curriculum, government bureaucracy and how to meet the schools criteria for delivering a lesson are just as important as subject specialism for a career teacher.

I think you're trying to justify something that just isn't there. Do you even know what courses most JTEs study to get their licenses? And, what they study to teach EFL?

Quote:

Quite a few of the Japanese English teachers I know are pretty fluent and with a thorough knowledge of English grammar.

Pretty rare to be pretty fluent. Most in the literature I've cited claim the are not.

Quote:

There are plenty that can't speak well (seemingly at all in some cases) but I don't always find this problematic.

Again, this contradicts the literature findings for those who try to teach communicative classes.

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The reason being that the Japanese teachers role is to ensure students pass their exams, and for this English speaking skills are not often, if at all, important.

Yes, true, but it misses the point I just made, not to mention the overarching implication that students may be able to pass silly entrance exams, but they can't use the language in the simplest of conversations.

Quote:

In contrast foreign ALT's in my experience rarely have knowledge of the actual required expectations of the syllabus or the working culture of the school they're in. They're often more of a cultural novelty than an effective teaching tool.

Agreed, but the lovely J government feels this is actually the reason to hire them! Ironic, eh?

Quote:

Also ALT's should remember that the English spoken in their hometown isn't the only English spoken in the world, nor does it contain all the world's English idioms and phrases.

This goes for any FT solo teacher as well.

starteacher wrote:

the ALT may be nothing more than a passing gimmick.

How do you mean that? JET has been around for 25 years! Dispatch companies are actually growing!

Quote:

Are the JTEs just too polite to say it in yer face you're not needed, but its the system they are in, so suck it up ?

The teachers themselves are often not the ones who make the decision to hire ALTs.

Quote:

If English is part of the "cultural" aspect of the curriculam, then why not bring over Chinese teachers, French teachers, Korean teachers, etc.

Perhaps because of the inroads EFL has made, and the greater importance of learning English.

womblingfree

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:21 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

The importance of the teaching degree's as much for the actual formal teacher training than for the subject specialism.

Glenski wrote:

In the case of EFL, I disagree. JTEs don't teach about English literature.

But that's the point, if you go into education as a high school teacher you're prepared to teach many things which are outside your specialism. It's completely different to the training you get as a native speaking EFL teacher teaching English in a language school, no one's ever going to suddenly ask you to teach Math.

womblingfree wrote:

Knowing your way around the curriculum, government bureaucracy and how to meet the schools criteria for delivering a lesson are just as important as subject specialism for a career teacher.

Glenski wrote:

I think you're trying to justify something that just isn't there. Do you even know what courses most JTEs study to get their licenses? And, what they study to teach EFL?

I presume they study the requirements of the Japanese high school system and how to deliver a lesson. I can't imagine there's much in the way of communicative EFL training at all. EFL as you or I know it isn't really on the agenda.

In UK schools there are a certain number of boxes to be ticked as to what constitutes a 'good' or 'outstanding' lesson. Now obviously you don't teach English the same as you teach Maths, and you don't teach Art the same as you teach Biology. Except you do. Some nameless people somewhere have decided what constitutes a good lesson and during government inspections you damn well better tick most of those boxes or you'll be marked down which may jeopordise your job, the department and even the school itself.

As a system it sucks, but you only really have to play the game during an inspection. If you know anything about teaching methodology, particularly methodology related to your specialism, it can drive you insane.

So then, in Japan also, what's important for any teacher is that they know what the syllabus requires and they know what their students need in order to pass their exams. It's probably completely different to yours or my idea of what constitutes a rigorous English learning program, but it's what the students need to progress. In Japan speaking English isn't part of that progression.

womblingfree wrote:

Quite a few of the Japanese English teachers I know are pretty fluent and with a thorough knowledge of English grammar.

Glenski wrote:

Pretty rare to be pretty fluent. Most in the literature I've cited claim the are not

At my school all the English teachers could speak pretty good English and at least three were pretty fluent. One couldn't speak a word. But yeah, I can believe it's not that common.

womblingfree wrote:

There are plenty that can't speak well (seemingly at all in some cases) but I don't always find this problematic.

Glenski wrote:

Again, this contradicts the literature findings for those who try to teach communicative classes.

Obviously if you're trying to deliver an effective communicative lesson then knowing how to speak the language is pretty important! Laughing

The teachers that can't speak a word of English are usually teaching classes geared to the usual grammar/translation stuff which is actually important for the schools results though.

Glenski wrote:

the overarching implication that students may be able to pass silly entrance exams, but they can't use the language in the simplest of conversations.

Using the language in the simplest of conversations isn't important in the context of their progression within the Japanese system. In contrast, passing their silly entrance exams will effect them for the rest of their lives.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:07 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

I can't speak for the requirements elsewhere. However, with the sleazy dispatc agencies here, I wouldn't count on such a check being done.

Interestingly enough, many of the big sleazy dispatchers now actually ask for a very recent police check. Interac asks for one from all overseas new recruits and all of our RCS ALTs had to supply one, too. I don't know if this is quite a recent thing, but it is certainly happening now.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:23 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

I know what you are saying here, and for the most part I agree, but my point is that despite their so-called education and training, most J teachers don't teach what most of them major it...literature. You may feel that they are still prepared for it, and perhaps that is the case, however they are not called upon it to do so.

As for ALTs not being asked to teach math, that's usually right. However, they are asked to help with speech contests, writing courses, reading courses, listening courses, etc. and they've usually received no training for those things unless you count their (usually) native English speaking background as training. (I don't, by the way.) As for me, I was asked to teach some science courses for special credit, but I was a special case.

Quote:

Glenski wrote:

I think you're trying to justify something that just isn't there. Do you even know what courses most JTEs study to get their licenses? And, what they study to teach EFL?

Yes, but they also study courses in social aspects of Japanese students and in office management. How many feel they are prepared to teach EFL? Darned few.

Quote:

So then, in Japan also, what's important for any teacher is that they know what the syllabus requires and they know what their students need in order to pass their exams.

The problem is, syllabuses change, sometimes annually (every year for 10 years or more at my old JHS/HS, FWIW). And, compound that with the fact that most syllabuses are not even written by people who have taught the course (the case at my school, anyway). Moreover, class assignments are not doled out until midMarch, so that means teachers have about 2 weeks to figure out what they are going to do with the poorly written syllabuses and books that someone else ordered.

Quote:

It's probably completely different to yours or my idea of what constitutes a rigorous English learning program, but it's what the students need to progress. In Japan speaking English isn't part of that progression.

Do you think it should be, though?

womblingfree wrote:

The teachers that can't speak a word of English are usually teaching classes geared to the usual grammar/translation stuff which is actually important for the schools results though.

And the results still suck. Schools all over the country are complaining, and not just about English scores.

womblingfree

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

they also study courses in social aspects of Japanese students and in office management. How many feel they are prepared to teach EFL? Darned few.

Social aspects and office management are far more relevant to them than learning about a subject that isn't even core-curriculum. What have many ALT's done to prepare for teaching EFL? Usually nothing apart from having a degree in anything at all for the visa, and occasionally some materials and audio-lingual drills to cling to from their last eikaiwa. A Japanese teacher knows the workings of the school and what's necessary for student progression, while an ALT will often have no clue about anything on the curriculum, cultural expectations and they wont have much of a clue about teaching EFL either. That's not even why they're there, as we've ascertained it's usually as a cultural novelty and a for bit of pronunciation practise.

womblingfree wrote:

So then, in Japan also, what's important for any teacher is that they know what the syllabus requires and they know what their students need in order to pass their exams.

Glenski wrote:

This is a problem in education around the world. My ESL classes can be observed by people that have no knowledge of English language teaching and the criteria of what makes a 'good' lesson is generic, not subject specific. Targets, courses and the qualifications required by teachers change with the wind, or at least with the budget and whatever's politically in fashion that season.

womblingfree wrote:

Glenski wrote:

Do you think it should be, though?

I don't think English speaking should be part of a Japanese students progression anymore than Spanish or French speaking skills should be part of American/British progression. It's desirable for sure, but if students aren't going to be using it in their lives it shouldn't be a stumbling block to areas where foreign speaking skills aren't necessary.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

So, this is interesting. Why do you teach, then?

And, how can you be so sure that they will never, ever use English in their lives? It's the international language of business and science. Globalization is a given. Very curious remark from an English teacher!

EDIT
Perhaps we should move this part of the conversation to another thread. The OP has not been around a while, but others may be interested in viewing / contributing and not know about it with the current thread title.

womblingfree

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:13 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

So, this is interesting. Why do you teach, then?

Mostly I teach to pay the bills, but I currently stay in language teaching because I'm really interested in inter-cultural communication and find sociolinguistics fascinating, plus the fact that I've invested serious time, effort and money in pursuing it as a career. And all of it stems from that 'year out' I planned in Japan while I was thinking of what to do. Very Happy

On a day to day basis I teach to meet the needs of whoever the students are, which changes depending on the context. I currently teach ESL to students who are in settled UK communities, so they need English skills to do pretty much anything, even so they're there through choice. Some choose not to learn English and though that seriously affects their job opportunities they can still live and work quite happily in their little communities (like most eikaiwa teachers in Japan!)

I also teach English to refugees that are being housed in the UK and processed by the Home Office, so they need English to fill in the forms allowing them to stay in the country and to have any chance at all of getting out of the deep doo-doo they are in. Both of these groups are highly motivated and have an immediate practical need.

In contrast most EFL students pay huge amounts of money to learn English which they feel is important for their overseas studies or work. In some cases that's true if their progression requires a certain certificate, spoken ability or exam score.

Students and teachers in a high school are neither typical EFL nor ESL students and have one primary target which is to pass exams that are crucial to their practical progression and the reputation of the school. English is just one subject among many, and the English conversation classes aren't necessary to graduate.

A diligent ALT can go about organising effective lessons and study programs, but it's up to the individuals ability and motivation, most of whom have little or no knowledge of how to go about this. For the few that do, then that's a bonus for the school they're at.

Glenski wrote:

how can you be so sure that they will never, ever use English in their lives?

Who says none will ever use it? Plenty will be inspired to continue learning and go on to learn English to a decent level. For the majority for whom this isn't the case, so what? They can still go off and get a good job. Obviously the more skills you have the better, but not speaking English in Japan wont have any more negative consequences that not speaking Spanish or French for Westerners (although it should be noted that I think Japanese foreign language skills are better than ours). English speakers are also hampered by a lack of languages in that they'll be unlikely to be hired for a job within Europe or get a job with the Foreign office, or as a diplomat, or as a foreign correspondent. English may be the 'language of business and science', but a monolingual ability wont get you hired when you're up against people speaking three or four languages.

Glenski wrote:

It's the international language of business and science. Globalization is a given. Very curious remark from an English teacher!

How many of your friends are multilingual international businessmen and scientists? If you unlock the human genome I doubt anyone will come asking for your TOEIC score and whether you can differentiate between the words 'ship' and 'sheep'. Wink

That English is used globally in business is not in question, but there are reasons to question whether this should be the case. Takahashi argues that for international conferences where English is exclusively used native speakers use this as an excuse to separate native from non-native speakers of English and 'indulge in their linguistic, psychological, communicative, and political superiority.'

To illustrate his observations of such conferences Takahashi writes:

Quote:

There is a great gap in the working knowledge of English between native speakers and non-native speakers, especially those speakers whose mother tongues are linguistically distant from English. Thus native speakers of English intentionally try to push non-native speakers out of discussions by making full use of tactics that stem from phonetic, idiomatic, syntactic, and pragmatic characteristics unique only in English. For example, they step up the speed of speech, use a large number of jargons and idioms, or make utterances that are grammatically complex.
(Takahashi, 1991: 188-189)

This would seem to suggest that rather than being a truly international language of business English is often used divisively to promote inequality.

EDIT: Wow, I suddenly went back and realised how short the actual post was I'm replying to. Guess I got carried away! Laughing

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:04 am Post subject:

womblingfree wrote:

Glenski wrote:

So, this is interesting. Why do you teach, then?

Thank you for your honesty.

Quote:

most EFL students pay huge amounts of money to learn English which they feel is important for their overseas studies or work.

"Most"? I don't know. There are a lot of children taking eikaiwa classes and juku (my own kid's kindergarten has kids in them!), and none of these are doing it for overseas study or a job.

And, a large number of adults take eikaiwa just to socialize, not learn the language.

Quote:

Students and teachers in a high school are neither typical EFL nor ESL students and have one primary target which is to pass exams that are crucial to their practical progression and the reputation of the school.

It seems as if you are labeling "typical EFL or ESL students" as only those who study for some voluntary purpose. I don't agree. In fact, those are probably the exception, especially if you are referring to those who study outside of their home countries.

Quote:

English is just one subject among many, and the English conversation classes aren't necessary to graduate.

True to the former statement, but false to the latter. They DO need the courses to graduate.

Quote:

Glenski wrote:

how can you be so sure that they will never, ever use English in their lives?

Who says none will ever use it?

Pardon me, but you did. Did I misunderstand the underlined part of the quote in my earlier post?

Quote:

Plenty will be inspired to continue learning and go on to learn English to a decent level. For the majority for whom this isn't the case, so what?

"Plenty". I wonder how many that is. And "decent level". There just aren't that many here in Japan, as you probably know.

As for "so what", and "They can still go off and get a good job.", yes, that is true for many (there's that indistinct word again). But, I can cite you quite a few cases where someone thought they would never need English in their careers, only to be surprised later on when it was required. Their office suddenly took on international orders, for example. Or they got transferred to some place that used English exclusively, for another. These are not hypotheticals, either.

Quote:

Obviously the more skills you have the better, but not speaking English in Japan wont have any more negative consequences that not speaking Spanish or French for Westerners

The British are notorious for being monolingual, despite living much closer to so many countries with those and other languages common to the world. The USA doesn't have such an excuse, but it is still largely a monolingual nation, and that is sad because of its international clout and connections. I think you underestimate the negative impact.

Quote:

(although it should be noted that I think Japanese foreign language skills are better than ours).

"Better" is relative, and the quality of their skills are probably due to the mandatory nature of the secondary education classes, which you seem to want to eliminate.

Quote:

English may be the 'language of business and science', but a monolingual ability wont get you hired when you're up against people speaking three or four languages.

Who says we're talking about monolingual people here? If a Japanese learns English well, then they are bilingual. Plus, there are far more scientists and international business people out there than diplomats and ambassadors.

Quote:

Glenski wrote:

It's the international language of business and science. Globalization is a given. Very curious remark from an English teacher!

How many of your friends are multilingual international businessmen and scientists?

Why did you choose to dodge the point here? Don't try to raise a smokescreen with pithy remarks, either.

Quote:

Spoken like a true non-native speaker of English, who probably feels inferior. Again, you are misdirecting the issue here.

To illustrate his observations of such conferences Takahashi writes:

Quote:

Help us by providing a more accurate citation, ok? Just look at the above, I have some serious reservations about believing Takahashi's leap of judgment from a difference in linguistic structure to an intentional shunning. Far more context is needed to believe this.

No need, I guess. I found a reference to this
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=6pGHdHjKx14C&oi=fnd&pg=PA167&dq=takahashi+1991+native+189+English+speakers+conferences&ots=PTFqXokqIO&sig=n2IeNxIvzO0pQVvkXlR95dSrP08#v=onepage&q=takahashi%201991%20native%20189%20English%20speakers%20conferences&f=false

And, Takahashi's statement is a linguistic joke, IMO. Look at the context in which it was presented:
"Takahashi, a Japanese anthropologist, having observed the proceedings of an international conference [Glenski's note: one conference.] where English was the only official language, argues that English-dominated international conferences [Glenski's note: plural, conferences, an enormous extrapolation for any reputable scientist] are bound to serve as an arena for linguistic and communicative discrimination..." Then followed your quote. The author of this (Yukio Tsuda) then further pooh-poohs science by saying that only one example is enough. Show me the data! I've attended my share of international conferences and never seen such intentional attitudes.

Quote:

This would seem to suggest that rather than being a truly international language of business English is often used divisively to promote inequality.

Pure unsubstantiated opinion.

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Teaching Jobs in China