Job Discussion Forums

[n&n]

I applied for this job with Caspian Training Group back in November or December. They interviewed me back in December. Six weeks later they finally got back to me. I negotiated with them to no avail -� they wanted me to work in Aktau on the Caspian Sea -- but there were many problems. First of all they didn�t seem very thorough, i.e., they didn�t answer all of my questions to my satisfaction. Actually, they only answered about 40% or 50% of them, partially because their head Kazakh English teacher didn�t understand everything I was asking and partially because they were either in a hurry or being shady/evasive or just telling me half truths or just not really focusing or paying attention to all of my questions. They just did not seem like they had it together.

Further, they have offices in other cities and in the contract they insisted that they had the right to move me any time and as frequently as they wanted. Also, there was a clause in the contract that said if I quit that I couldn�t work for any of their competitors for two years which most likely would have meant that I would have had to leave the country.

More importantly, they didn�t want to spend the money or do the extra work to get me a work visa. They told me that they would get me a visa once I got to the airport in Almaty where I would have a few days of unpaid orientation and that I would be there for the first year on a business visa. They also said they would not pay for the medical tests that were required for the visa. They went on to tell me that I wouldn�t be getting a residency permit. Well, of course not, because from what�s been written in this thread I gather that you have to have a work visa to obtain a residency permit. Without the residency permit I couldn�t get a bank account. That leaves me with either having to pay the Western Union fees to send money home every month or having to worry about someone from work inviting themselves into my small apartment -- they have the key -- and taking it all if common thieves didn�t beat them to it. Also, without a work visa it�s doubtful I would have been able to file a complaint with the government if they didn�t pay me because they would not have considered me to be working legally.

Another major factor was that they told me I couldn�t take my vacation time except for national holidays until I had worked there for 12 months. So, in essence, they were trying to rob me out of my vacation time. They wanted me to work six days a week, so working for 12 straight months without being able to take 2 or 3 weeks off in the middle was not something I wanted to do. I pressed them on this point and finally they said they would let me take 2 weeks off halfway through the contract at reduced pay but that�s the only concession they made. When I pointed out that the 550 USD they were offering at the end of the contract wasn�t nearly enough money for the flight home they wouldn�t budge. They also wanted me to agree to a probationary period/lesser pay for the first two months.

There were some other problems, too. They expected me to walk to the office in the late morning, teach a class and then walk back home and then back to the office again in the evening where a taxi would take me to the client�s office to teach for either 3 or 4.5 more hours after which a taxi would take me home. (And, they said the evening classes could have been 90 minute classes with no breaks between them. Teaching for 4.5 straight hours without having any breaks is absurd.) Let it be noted that the temperature in Aktau was 120 degrees Fahrenheit/50 degrees Celsius for about two months last summer and the winters are cold, so it doesn�t really seem like a good place to spend time outdoors! I thought about getting my own car but was told it would have been a bureaucratic mess not worth pursuing, especially since I don�t speak Russian and it didn�t seem like very many people there spoke English.

Also, the manager in Aktau didn�t speak English. Furthermore, I wouldn�t have had my own office or even my own computer and there were only 2 or 3 channels in English to watch back at the 30 square meter/300 square foot apartment. I suppose I could have gotten Internet service back at the apartment but the cost would have been on me as well as the effort involved to get it set up and it didn�t sound like the Internet was very fast, so I wasn�t sure I could stream or download my favorite programs from back home but it didn�t seem like it was going to happen. In Aktau there are also occasional blackouts, water outages, and expensive foreign food. Plus, the police there do on occasion shake down Westerners for money and there are sometimes problems with taxi drivers trying to squeeze extra money out of you. Also, many of the taxis are unregistered as most of the locals freelance as taxi drivers.

Furthermore, other jobs teaching English in the oil industry which is what this job was pay better and I�m sure most accountants or scientists or even technician oil company workers from the West wouldn�t even think of going to Kazakhstan for less than $100,000 a year. This job paid much less than that kind of money. All in all, it just didn�t smell right to me, so I gave it a pass.

[maruss]

Did they ever give a positive answer to ANY of your questions???This outfit sounds so bad I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are just winding us up by posting it on the site!Sounds like the 'Fawlty Towers'of E.S.L.-I've heard of some crap firms but this one sounds unbelievable!

[eltie]

Wow am I glad I turned the job down. Thanks for your feedback n&n, now I have a better idea what questions to ask and what to look out for.

[n&n]

Hi-a maruss. Always nice to hear from you. Your comment gave me a chuckle. I only wish I was pulling your leg. But these people wasted a lot of my time over the past week trying to get over on me. Eltie, it's my pleasure.

[slaqdog]

Concerning the visa=if the company doesn't spend some money i.e pay the bribe, they can't get a working visa for you and they expect you to take the risks as explained above.

[TOMMY-GUNN]

Hello guys,

Yes, thank you n&n for your synopsis of that school (Caspian)!

Actually, i have to say I worked for them in Almaty way back, maybe 3-4 years ago free-lance for over a year period and they were pretty good to me; ie: paid very well, never an issue with payment and were pretty professional (far more so than other organisation that i mingled with at the time). Maybe I was lucky though that I just did contractal courses ad hoc, as I was in other employment too at the time. At that time the school only operated full-time out of Almaty and rarely sent teaching operatives out to other cities. I think they didn't really have full-time native teachers before and just took professionals in when they required.

I don't doubt your account at all, as I know that there are many unscruplulous out-fits in this country. Many schools are after the quick-dollar and hence their short term aims do not bode well for teachers, who despite shortages of good ones, they will still treat as expendable. It is a shame though if this school has gone down this route as they have just about killed their name therefore. They were good and had top clients (not that this is an example of why they are good) and a fairly dependable reputation before but the market they were catering for. I had good contacts in the admin team - it must well be, I'm imagining that they've moved on because I really can't imagine they would be so disregarding of all you guys who just want to teach with some security and basic needs. Those terms and conditions are ridiculous for any teacher, new, old, native or even local for that matter.

Good luck with getting some-thing but if Kazakhstan is really your thing, drop me a message as I'm still a 'man-on-the-street' here in KZ and could probably tally something up if the correct boxes were ticked both ends.

Regards

[n&n]

I'm wondering what it is you regard as "paying very well" in the EFL market in Kazakhstan. Could you give us a dollar amount?

[TOMMY-GUNN]

Hi there n&n.
To quantify my previous statement. I remember getting $30 for an academic hour for individuals and $40 for some intensive group stuff.
Bear in mind a few factors why i considered that it was well paid.
a) It was 3 - 4 years back. Prices were not at the same rate as they are now in Kazakhstan, in many respects they were considerably lower.
b) Teaching private you could find some such pay (or more but not on tap) but as for working for an organisation, there was no school that I came in touch with that came close to this.
c) I'm talking about Kazakhstan TEFL and obviously not saying it's great in comparisson to perhaps other countries..... but having said that, it probably is more than quite a few countries for a school.
d) I would still class it as fairly (but less so) well paid when you compare it to what others are being offered in Kazakhstan today.
e) I'm talking in the context of TEFL too, not in relation to all jobs!
Hope that helps!

[slaqdog]

Were you legal in KZ? Did you have a work visa and residency? Were you paid cash in hand or into a bank account?

[TOMMY-GUNN]

Were you legal in KZ? Did you have a work visa and residency? Were you paid cash in hand or into a bank account?

ANSWERS:
Yes, yes, through accounts (so neither 'under the table' or the money going straight into an account). Although yes, I did have a bank account too....

But certainly valid points you are trying to raise, that most teachers in KZ will not have that total security of paperwork on their side if they work in a language school. I guess it's very similar to what goes on in Russia, minus the crackdown and palava that can be read by most people with experience in that country on this site recently. Nowadays, i'd say it be a matter of time before the government continues to be lax with working and inappropriate visas.

And just to clarify any confusion, all my legitimate paperwork was not through working with the langauge school therefore - i tied myself in somewhere else and worked the contracts when i needed/wanted to with Caspian.

Regards

[slaqdog]

So in other words if you go to KZ you do so with no legal protection whatsoever- you do not explain how you 'tied yourself in elsewhere' but you are recommending people work in a nasty brutal dictatorship without proper papers; if anything ever goes wrong or you are simply unlucky you will find yourself at the mercy of Kazakhs(and they will $$$$ you up the $$$$ given half the chance.
QUOTE:
Nowadays, i'd say it be a matter of time before the government continues to be lax with working and inappropriate visas.
UNQUOTE
Are you a native English speaker?

[TOMMY-GUNN]

La-da-de-la-da-de.... (Easy like Sunday Morning....)

Ah! You've gotta love this forum somtimes.... never dull, even if a pattern does emerge occasionally.

..... If you say something, there's always somebody who likes to take it on board to needlessly lambast and puff out their chest as if to say my knowledge is better than your knowledge etc...

All i do is: acknowledge sympathy of someone's situation, express my own experience, answer a few simple questions truthfully and the result? I get questioned about my nationality (and between the lines my level of English) and my background/where i worked (Sorry, as a non-regular poster, I didn't know that it was mandatory to state where exactly you have worked to have allowed writing on this forum more legitiamate) and generally there is a feeling of unnecessary tone from a certain somebody.

Whoever that is, just ask yourself were some of your comments necessary?

To help you answer:
Let's say for example I'm black skinned - would that then make a difference to how you see my ability of English?
Recommending? - I did no such thing to tell people to go to another country and work on a non-working visa. Just check back and see the thread. For the record, people make their own choices; I never say it is good or bad, because if you work for a good school, then many current teachers have never had a problem with paperwork. Whilst on the otherhand, working illegally of course cannot be said to be good either. People make their own choices and I was neither forcing their hand either way.
I was merely stating the pay i got, as i was asked, and chose to answer that question. I also chose to mention in another thread that I was
legal in Kazakhstan, as I was asked. As that seems to be an apparent bone of discontention, in the spirit of sharing that information, I worked for a University.

The last comment on this point, would be to say that i merely commented that for many years people worked (taught) in Russia on a business visa. Is that true or false?
It wasn't a problem way back for the majority (true or false?)
It now seems to be a problem for the teachers in Russia now, where the rules of paperwork, visas etc.... is causing issues for them (true or false?)
I was/am just stating that in the same way, many teachers in KZ didn't/don't have problems here with non-working visas (fact)
and, I was/am stating the word of caution, that who is to know if the situation in Russia is carbon-copied in KZ when incorrect visas, a void right to work would cause you problems?

I don't want to have a ping-pong of comments going back with unnecessary jibes and digs at people and their experience. If I have caused offence to any individual or observers, please accept humble apologies.
And, in writing incase I ever choose to write another answer or comment on this site, here are my humble opinions, for what they are worth, of how we can help each other (which is the purpose of the forum?):
a) There are alot of people with valid and real experiences, some will be good, some will be bad. The most important thing people when writing is to express the truth and that will be the most helpful (In all my threads that is all I have tried to do).
b) Let's try and respect people people. It's different when somebody is trying to be an outright ****, but if they aren't, why is there a need to attack?

I hope this clears some issues...... I hope that there is a feeling of calm after this post. I am not purporting myself to be an oracle, just another person in the industry.
I think the experiences of many of the posters and the vast, vast majority have helped 100's of people. Let's keep it that way?

Regards.....

[TOMMY-GUNN]

La-da-de-la-da-de.... (Easy like Sunday Morning....)

Ah! You've gotta love this forum somtimes.... never dull, even if a pattern does emerge occasionally.

..... If you say something, there's always somebody who likes to take it on board to needlessly lambast and puff out their chest as if to say my knowledge is better than your knowledge etc...

All i do is: acknowledge sympathy of someone's situation, express my own experience, answer a few simple questions truthfully and the result? I get questioned about my nationality (and between the lines my level of English) and my background/where i worked (Sorry, as a non-regular poster, I didn't know that it was mandatory to state where exactly you have worked to have allowed writing on this forum more legitiamate) and generally there is a feeling of unnecessary tone from a certain somebody.

Whoever that is, just ask yourself were some of your comments necessary?

To help you answer:
Let's say for example I'm black skinned - would that then make a difference to how you see my ability of English?
Recommending? - I did no such thing to tell people to go to another country and work on a non-working visa. Just check back and see the thread. For the record, people make their own choices; I never say it is good or bad, because if you work for a good school, then many current teachers have never had a problem with paperwork. Whilst on the otherhand, working illegally of course cannot be said to be good either. People make their own choices and I was neither forcing their hand either way. (BUT, certainly Slaqdog, your words of caution can only be commended).
I was merely stating the pay i got, as i was asked, and chose to answer that question. I also chose to mention in another thread that I was
legal in Kazakhstan, as I was asked. As that seems to be an apparent bone of discontention, in the spirit of sharing that information, I worked for a University.

The last comment on this point, would be to say that i merely commented that for many years people worked (taught) in Russia on a business visa. Is that true or false?
It wasn't a problem way back for the majority (true or false?)
It now seems to be a problem for the teachers in Russia now, where the rules of paperwork, visas etc.... is causing issues for them (true or false?)
I was/am just stating that in the same way, many teachers in KZ didn't/don't have problems here with non-working visas (fact)
and, I was/am stating the word of caution, that who is to know if the situation in Russia is carbon-copied in KZ when incorrect visas, a void right to work would cause you problems?

I don't want to have a ping-pong of comments going back with unnecessary jibes and digs at people and their experience. If I have caused offence to any individual or observers, please accept humble apologies.
And, in writing incase I ever choose to write another answer or comment on this site, here are my humble opinions, for what they are worth, of how we can help each other (which is the purpose of the forum?):
a) There are alot of people with valid and real experiences, some will be good, some will be bad. The most important thing people when writing is to express the truth and that will be the most helpful (In all my threads that is all I have tried to do).
b) Let's try and respect people people . It's different when somebody is trying to be an outright ****, but if they aren't, why is there a need to attack others?

I hope this clears some issues...... I hope that there is a feeling of calm after this post. I am not purporting myself to be an oracle, just another person in the industry.
I think the experiences of many of the posters and the vast, vast majority have helped 100's of people. Let's keep it that way?

(Sorry to single your name out again Slaqdog - but relax dude, apart from my retort in the beginning, I'm not wanting a war of words with you. I'm going to put it down to a misundersating on some part. I know you have helped many people on this site and have notable experience. I hope you can rediscover your form and mutual respect too. Many thanks)

Regards.....

[slaqdog]

yeah relax dude
I am attacking your advice that it is ok to work in Kazakhstan illegally and I stand by this; it puts you at the mercy of your 'employer'.
Nothing personal just business

[maqueen]

Hello All,

I'm presently trying to get a gig in KZ. It has been literally like trying to pull teeth. They take forever to respond and seem quite lax except for the "we needed you yesterday" lines.

I agreed to come then they sent me the contract. You should have seen it. It was one of the most one-sided contracts I have ever seen! They could at anytime dismiss you, make you bark like a dog, withhold salary, sue you for damages, enter your apartment, etc. After much back and forth about untenable clauses for my part, I ended up just sending them a version of a contract I would sign.

I think if you want to go to one of these EFL frontiers, you need to be quite specific in demands, acceptable working conditions, pay rate, benefits, etc. up front. They have little experience with foreigners. Obviously they have these great latitude with workers there. Don't agree to anything unless you feel comfortable with the conditions and stand firm with demands. It is the only way to open things up.

Tie all salaries to US dollars, but payable in Tenge. You should be making a minimum of net $8.50 an hour plus shared-housing and utilities (in smaller cities), for 30 hours a week or minimum $1050 for maximum 120 hours a month. At least $12.75 for any overtime hours. Don't accept anything but a minimum monthly salary plus overtime. They should provide insurance. Make sure you are compensated for your in-service time. They will find every reason to have you around and not pay you if possible. Meetings, testing and evaluations, training, etc. Get compensated for out of town travel and overnights at a minimum of 8 hours per overnight night plus travel time return to residence. Make them pre- pay for at least your one-way ticket there and visa upfront and reimburse medical exam fee upon arrival. Don't fall for the "we pay later or we're poor" schemes.

I have a good sample contract if anybody needs a reference...

Mark