Job Discussion Forums

[maqueen]

Hello All,

REALLY I mean it. Don't say I didn't warn you! Literally a beggar nation and possibly failed state status.

1. The place was booming until the moronic president's ill-fated clash with Russia (one man's war another man's conflict). Now he can't even beg a European leader of any stature to take a picture with him. Foreign aid/FDI has dried up to the point that they can't make the budget and they are laying off military, cops, etc.

2. The people have an almost delusional and unrealistic high opinion of themselves. "We are European. No, you are in Asia. Well, we are a bridge country. True, but you are still in Asia. Well we are Christian. True, but you are still in Asia..." Turkey for its warts and all, compared to Georgia, is vastly more developed i.e. infrastructure and mentality, even on the Anatolian peninsula. Tbilisi is crumbling to the ground. Nobody will lift a finger to improve their own lot and surroundings, expecting that the West will give them money so they can rip it off. They think they somehow deserve western wages, yet aren't productive, families live together forever, don't pay rent/mortgage and food is cheap. They are extremely lazy. If you go into an office there will generally be 2 desks. One will have the somebody in it doing ALL of the work and the other desk is the boss who does nothing. They will lie at the drop of a hat. Just my opinion, but participation in the Eurovision song contest, is not the barometer of geography (when it is not in Moscow).

3. A night out is more expensive than London or Paris almost. Most of the hot spots are full of nothing but posers without any substance attached. On top of it you can count on bad service, plus a service charge and offerings that comprise of nothing local. So instead of a local 3 lari beer they will only offer you an expensive import, because they are always out of the cheaper menu options.

4. If you are a guy you can forget about "dating" much less getting laid! Highly conservative and immature. The dating scene is something from the 6th grade. Anybody who tells you differently is lying. There isn't even a word in the language for "boyfriend". The beach for the big summer season was a nightmare. I'm not gay, but the guys looked extremely better than the women without any clothes. No talent, too much cheese, bread and not any physical activity. The only exercise you will see a Georgian girl doing is running for a cigarette. Plus, they like to tell you how clever and beautiful they are dressed up all slutty, in fake designer clothes, cheap big sunglasses, bad teeth and mustache. They turn VERY unattractive quick!

5. Now for the work... Unless you get extremely lucky and happen to find a corporate gig, there is almost nothing for native EFL teachers. The corporate job will pay something in the neighborhood of $10+ per hour and you will probably net out about $150 a week and housing (minus utilities, transport, etc.). Private schools will have you come for interviews, yet only have at most maybe 3-6 hours of work. This is pretty much true for ALL of the schools/ads. They often won't tell you this unless you ask upfront. So you can use the metro and travel 1.5 hours to work 1.5 or pay for a taxi, make nothing and be responsible for your own housing, etc. Anybody who has worked Business/General EFL in any of the world's larger cities knows this problem, but in Georgia the pay rate makes it impossible. On top of it the US has flooded the place with Peace Corp volunteers who are generally working as English teachers. There is a rumor of a government program to introduce native English teachers into the primary/secondary schools, but see #1, realize the kids are spoiled brats and classrooms are a zoo. If you are doing schools/private lessons at best you will get 7-8 months work. Breaks from late July to October and late December until March. No salary! There is a catch-22 with all of the work. They usually have no idea of what they actually have work-wise.

I have had personal experience with the 2 schools in subject line. ETI is one of the larger concerns, but is now Georgian-run (as opposed to formerly British) and now acts like a typical Georgian business: inefficient, untruthful, pay problems and sketchy. Lingua House pawns themselves off as a professional outfit, but at best is a very small school trying to rope EFL teachers in using deceptive ads for little work and low pay. Posting various ads for work in Sochi or Parliament just to try and sucker you to look at the ads. The deputy director (an older American) is a drunk and seems to think he is going to get world-class teachers for peanuts. He even went so far as to disparage and insult me in a simple follow-up to a reference contact because he didn't get the answers he liked. On another note TCS was a good experience and the director was lovely.

You've been warned...

Mark

[Sadebugo]

Hey, Mark:

No doubt you had a terrible experience there and I don't want to say anything to diminish what you wrote above. I was in Georgia last fall for three months working for the US government as an EFL instructor. I taught military/government employees and was put up in a hotel. The students were probably the best Georgia has to offer. This and my excellent living conditions probably gave me a better overall impression than the one you had. Still, it was good for me to hear how bad it can be when you're there on your own.

If it's any consolation, my experience in Korea was much worse than the one in Georgia. Now that's a tough country!

BTW, how did you decide to go to Georgia to begin with?

Good luck.

Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/

[maqueen]

Sadebugo,

Actually my "Georgia" experience was average to ok, just not the work. Mostly lovely, hospitable people (but you got to watch'em and don't believe a thing spoken), good food, wine and scenery. I went to GE because it was an easy place to go. Been overseas 6 years. Easy visa, to open bank accounts and relatively cheap to live if you make a decent salary. Stayed almost 2 years, but the economy literally has ground to a halt. They don't get it. To make something nice takes hard work, sacrifice and working with what you have. Nobody wants to work (unless their getting $5k a month), so they don't or much less sacrifice...

You were a lucky one (and an exception). Almost in Disney mode. Good outside job offer, flown in, put up in a hotel and short-term stay. Everything is new, fun, interesting and you have lots of mental candy to deal with. Scratch the surface a little bit and it turn pretty ugly fast! They really are simple people contrary to their high self-opinions about themselves and country.

Mark

[Sadebugo]

[coledavis]

Before you get too carried away with this "but you're in Asia" routine, remember that Georgia is on the border of Russia, European Russia. If you also note that Russian culture is pretty similar from Belarus to the Russian Far East (and they quite reasonably consider the continent Eurasia, not Europe and Asia), then the Georgian point is reasonably made. If we wish to do this ethnic divisiveness for fun and profit, can I guess that this contributor is an American?

And as for 'failed state'! Come on, this is just abuse. Failed state is generally reserved for utterly lawless and dangerous places like Somalia and Iraq. Although given the way that much of the population doesn't believe in letting everybody have health care, I guess the USA under Mr Obama is only now joining the ranks of civilised nations..

[kazachka]

ETI- WOW! Is Chris Graham no longer around? I freelanced for them 2004-early 06 and was never treated badly. That's a shame to hear they have gone to hell in a handbasket.

I still see the same Moscow contacts however so maybe they just suck in Georgia?
http://educatrain.ru/default.aspx?hti=9&ti=3

[Sadebugo]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

People, before leaving your own country, I think a few things are very important to keep in mind:
1) News flash at five: A different country is going to be different. Better/worse are subjective ideas, ones which obviously vary greatly depending on who is asked;
2) Do extensive homework on important aspects of the place you're going (for example religion, lifestyle, economic situation, and so on);
3) My aunt once told me the following gem: "Whining is like a rocking chair, it keeps you busy but gets you nowhere"; it certainly isn't going to change an entire culture. Flexibility, open-mindedness and a positive attitude work wonders for one's experience; and
4) Take anonymous online rants with a grain of salt. I have never been to Georgia, for example, but I am quite skeptical about long posts about what the girls wear or about the locals' opinions about which continent they belong to. That being said, some of point #5 in the OP had some useful information in it.
Just my take.

[coledavis]

[maqueen]

"Before you get too carried away with this "but you're in Asia" routine"

Looks like somebody else needs a geography lesson...

"can I guess that this contributor is an American? "

Is it really relevant when it is an actual take for the on-the-ground situation? Can I guess that this contributor is from LameEstan?

"Failed state" is generally up for interpretation. And, anybody who thinks housing, healthcare, education, job, car, TV, Ipod, et al. are "rights" is delusional. I think it was Thatcher who said "socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money..."

�Humor brings insight and tolerance. Irony brings a deeper and less friendly understanding.� Agnes Repplier

It is really amazing that some Brits, Aussies, etc. are SO nasty and condescending, to a country and people that generally love, respect and support them in so many ways. It really shows how for some the only taste they have is in their mouth and the only class they have was attended.

I don't know Chris Graham. ETI was at some point, from what I could gather, a fairly respectable outfit in Georgia and the region. As an example after my departure, the BP Supsa native speaker position was being worked by a non-native speaker from Africa, website is non-functioning, forwards to AZ and email contact through generic accounts.

I have lived overseas and worked the corporate EFL game in Beijing, Moscow, Bangkok and Tbilisi/Georgia for over 6 years. I have never expected anywhere to be like home, respected locally and tried to contribute. Be skeptical all you want, but as said at the beginning and end of the OP, you have been warned.

Mark

[coledavis]

Geography lesson for those with a little sophistication:

Even if we stick with the non-Russian, traditional view of Europe, Europe in the north goes much much further west than it does in the south, to the Ural mountains. Now Georgia, once part of the Soviet Union, lies just to the south of western Russia, which has always been considered European. It is a terrifically long distance west of the Urals.

If we use the Russian take on the continent, then it's Eurasia. If you wander down a street in a Siberian city, you'll know why. If you didn't know you were in Asia, you would think that this was just another part of Russia, i.e. Europe.

Also, it's a Christian country - for what religion is worth - which over the last millennium or so is the sign of a western culture (the Russian view scores again). Racially - for that's worth - the people are Caucasians.

So your geographical analysis is based on the slender and arbitrary viewpoint of it being to the south of Russia. In case you think that I speak for myself only, go to a search engine and try 'georgia europe or asia'. Even those commentators calling it Asia, as it falls to the south of the Caucasus, say that this is an arbitrary choice, rather than a logical distinction. Other commentators describe it as straddling the two continents, again suggesting the arbitrary nature of the debate.

Essentially, saying 'this is Asia' as if it meant something is the most meaningless thing you can say. If it Asia, then it's the least clearly defined piece of Asia; it ain't very Asian.

[coledavis]

Maqueen said, "It is really amazing that some Brits, Aussies, etc. are SO nasty and condescending, to a country and people that generally love, respect and support them in so many ways. It really shows how for some the only taste they have is in their mouth and the only class they have was attended. "

I haven't a clue what the second part of this paragraph meant, but let's briefly consider this business of love, respect and support.

America supports Britain and Australia, does it? Oh, no, not the 'we fought shoulder to shoulder' bit! Some years after the Russians, Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians (amongst others) had spent their blood, they turned up. And made money. And then financially strangled Britain when it dared to have a socialist government. In case you don't know, the USA arbitrarily called in its loans on the much respected Attlee government. The American government knew just how supportive it was being..

The British government that the USA attacked brought in universal health care. And, socialist or conservative, all but the most bloodyminded Brits consider it a right. They don't think that people should be left on the road to die. And oddly enough, members of the former Soviet Union, however cash-strapped the governments, don't think so. So what makes the USA a civilised country?

As for providing quotes from different thinkers, well, these are selective. Let's take Neil Kinnock's views on Thatcherite health care if you think yours are the only valid ones: "If Mrs Thatcher wins ... I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old."

Yes, and with regard to your views about civilisation, whether or not you are American is relevant. Although I do realise that not all Americans share your vision of the triumph of individuals' cash over the welfare of the majority.

[Sashadroogie]

Ho ho! The Clash of Civilisations and the Remaking of the New World Order, anyone?

Not interested in yet another ethnic bash, so I'll limit my post to one aspect. Europe as a geographical entity is somewhat of an anomaly. By rights it wouldn't really be considered a separate continent at all except that the (essentially Romano-Greek) culture that shapes our world-view decided it was not a part of Asia. But there is no geographical reason for this as to the east there is no obvious borderline with Asia. The Greeks decided that the Don was the limit where barbarism began. To say that the Urals have always been considered the dividing line is in error, and indeed there was a time when Russia itself was not regarded as European at all. This was so until Catherine the Great decreed that the Asian borders should begin at the Urals, hence the convention today. Yet there are still many people, even in Russia itself, who are not altogether sure about the 'Europeaness' of Russia, let alone Georgia.

[coledavis]

Fair comment on the Urals and the history. Thanks. That was interesting.

[Sashadroogie]

Thanks. I too find fascinating the way culture and geography interact. Turkey, another 'bridge' country can't quite decide where it is. Greece would probably be viewed with Asian suspicion today were it not for the fact its ancient culture gave birth to our European outlook. As for the Americas, close your ears to the accents and, as much as when walking down a street in Siberia, there is nothing dramatically un-European there. I'll get into to trouble for that bit. I frequently infuriate my American colleagues with my wicked proposition that the USA is really just Britain part II...