Job Discussion Forums

[inchinanow]

I have worked at several schools here in China and in almost every case; I have found that the Chinese Managers are largely ineffective and incompetent. They like to appear as if they know what they are doing, but in reality they have little knowledge or data to support their decisions. Their management is often sloppy, arbitrary and without logic. Things are done more for appearance than for anything really meaningful.

They are almost as immature as the students sometimes. Does anyone else have this experience?

[kukiv]

I get the impression that a lot of the management method we see out here still belongs to the old-China - where rising in the ranks was partly seen as a way on bunking out having to do any work, and being able to shove the responsibility of the job, and of course the inevitable managerial glitches, onto the underlings!!!!!! This means if you confront the 'real' manager - they haven't got much of an idea whats going on - apart from the price of beer at the local KTV.

Also a general problem in China is the fact that so many people rise up the career ladder by fact of whom they know rather than any expertise or excellence. Often there's a huge gap between ability of a manager and the the level of required performance that goes with the position.

As for their maturity - well, for a complete surprise and bit of amusement, try getting into an argument with a Chinese manager - in such a Show-down, what many of us would call, adult-logic often seems rather lacking!!!!!!

[randyj]

Judging levels of competence or maturity in any culture surely involves subjectivity. Measuring these attributes through a cross-cultual prism certainly must cause some distortion. Try to be objective. Take decision-making, for example. In almost any Chinese organization, asking for a decision is very difficult. For a Chinese person, there is no upside to going out on a limb. Taking a chance will rarely be rewarded. If there is any probability that a decision may come back to haunt someone, then the only course for them is avoidance or delay. Many of us from different cultures consider this reluctance to make decisions as an indication of incompetence. I personally refrain from making such judgments.

[kukiv]

[Mister Al]

The words management and China don't belong in the same sentence, unless the word bizarre is included.

[ttorriel]

[cormac]

[LanGuTou]

Oh, the Chinese concept of management!

The best thing that can be said is they have their way, we have our way and never the twain shall meet.

I have recently planned for life outside of foreign teaching. To be more precise, my objective for coming to China was not for the purpose of teaching but for longer term business objectives. It has taken me years to come to terms with business culture here but I am glad that I took the time. It has prevented so much heartache and pain. Some things I hear or learn daily still astound me.

I have a Chinese girlfriend. She has a position at managerial level in a large Chinese company. She could be described as being successful in Chinese society. I also have many, many Chinese friends from business backgrounds. Most are rich and successful. However, for me to have common consensus with Chinese nationals on a host of managerial issues is simply impossible.

I recently registered a business in China. I want a future in China and I want to give my girlfriend the best future I can. But I do not let her, her family or her friends anywhere near my business activities. This is the biggest strain on our relationship that I have experienced and a continual bone of contention between the two of us. She always wants to impose herself on my business and use it to her advantage.

Some examples of why I cannot accept that kind of arrangement:

Generally speaking, Chinese people have great difficulty in planning and organization. Chinese business concept is based on grab what you can today, don't wait for tomorrow. Also all planning is done on the hoof and with little thought.

Every Sunday morning, I sit alone with a cup of coffee scribbling notes in silence. What I am doing is planning my agenda for the coming week. I have a whiteboard in my office on which I write who I need to contact, how and why. To me it is the most basic of basic business functions.

Contrast that with the all to common Chinese perspective on planning. The daily ritual that my girlfriend goes through each day on her mobile phone hastly trying to organize meetings leading to frustration and disappointment. However, in her eyes my methodology is ridiculous and laughable. OK, I will accept looking ridiculous.

Longer term planning! I have written a five year plan of how to grow my business. My girlfriend and other Chinese business people believe that this concept is ridiculous. Why, because everything is fluid and situations change with time. Chinese know nothing of the concept of contingency. You have a desired outcome and a fall back option.

I have written three cash flow forecasts for the following year. One based on standard business performance, one based on best case scenario and one based on worst case scenario. However, each one only has provision for me taking a salary of 5000 rmb per month out of the business for my personal consumption. My worst case scenario can easily absorb that and the best case scenario makes it look like peanuts.

The Chinese mentality is you earn the money, why not spend it?

My girlfriend cannot accept the concept of only drawing 5000 per month because it is no better than being a foreign teacher. My business friends see the potential turnover as a means to me driving a beautiful, black, sleak BMW or the likes.

My western business viewpoint is 5000 is enough to get by on in China so leave the money in the business for future expansion. Enjoy the rewards a few years down the line. The Chinese perspective is "now is all that matters in life". No patience, no long term vision.

The Chinese perspective of interaction with clients is also very interesting. I have agreements in place for contracts with directors of very large, multinational companies for China based procurement. I have been given certain targets to accomplish before formal exchange of contract. Sometimes days go by without any communication between us.

For my girlfriend, this is a reason to panic. She cannot understand why I am not in their faces pushing them to exchange contract because this is the norm in Chinese business. For western business people, such activity has nuisance value and is irritating. We have an interim agreement and this is enough.

If you want an example of the irritation factor at micro level, think about shopping experiences in China when all you wish to do is peruse the goods in a shop but you are followed constantly by an assistant always asking you what you are looking for. This is standard business practice to the Chinese.

My girlfriend also knows who some of my potential clients are and that they represent cash rich organizations. In comes the all too common Chinese business psyche - how much can they be exploited for and how to cheat them out of more. I have a pricing structure based on proving my capability and building long term relationships. The Chinese and western psyche are at odds with one another.

Then there are business ethics and moral values. In Chinese business philosophy, money is everything and overrides any morality issues. Where this philosophy exists, you will always get cheating and dishonesty.

I registered my business with half a year left on my teaching contract. If I quit teaching now, I can certainly make more money. But I will have breached my contract.

Forget any moral issues about contract and agreements. I have been told by quite a few Chinese people in business that a contract in China is made to be broken and is a useless piece of paper. Why not just quit the job?

I won't do it because I would not like it if one of my clients did likewise. I won't do it because I have a moral responsibility to my employers and students. I just work harder to do both jobs simultaneously as it is only for a few months. In the summer I can concentrate on business.

Principles and attitudes of this kind are, needless to say, viewed as ridiculous by my girlfriend and other business or government people. It is clear why levels of trust are so low in this country.

I could go on and on but enough said. I have made many references to my girlfriend but she represents the norm rather than the exception in Chinese business practices.

She is adamant that I will fail because of my principles and methods. We shall see who is right in the long run.

[cormac]

[kukiv]

[Mister Al]

[Mister Al]

[daCabbie]

Chinese management:

Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box. These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the box. There's no playing grab-ass or fighting in the building. You got a grudge against another man, you fight him Saturday afternoon. Any man playing grab-ass or fighting in the building spends a night in the box. First bell's at five minutes of eight when you will get in your bunk. Last bell is at eight. Any man not in his bunk at eight spends the night in the box. There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box. You get two sheets. Every Saturday, you put the clean sheet on the top... the top sheet on the bottom... and the bottom sheet you turn in to the laundry boy. Any man turns in the wrong sheet spends a night in the box. No one'll sit in the bunks with dirty pants on. Any man with dirty pants on sitting on the bunks spends a night in the box. Any man don't bring back his empty pop bottle spends a night in the box. Any man loud talking spends a night in the box. You got questions, you come to me. I'm Carr, the floor walker. I'm responsible for order in here. Any man don't keep order spends a night in...

[cormac]

[zootown]